Please note: blinds are $1-$2, but game is $2-$100 spread-limit, where the most you can bet or raise is $100 over the previous bet.

I rarely tank in this game, but did last night.

V1: BB. 40-year-old Asian guy. Whale, gambler, frequently leaving the table to play pit games. A couple times he straddled to $4, like 5 guys limped in, and he raised to $104 to take it down. He’s built his stack up to like $1000 with a red line through the roof, by taking advantage of the one idiot at the table (who bet $100 on three streets with 44 on a KK2A6 board, vs Villain’s 99 call-down), and by winning a huge pot w KK vs QQ.

V2: UTG. Young kid, uses the hip YouTube poker terminology (“blockers!” “range advantage!”). Has never open limped and seems to be open-raising at a normal frequency. Bought in for $200, stack of $500.

I have a stack of $500 and am seen as very tight (as I’m card dead tonight and these players don’t know me).

HAND: V2 raises UTG to $8 (very small open in our game, it’s been around $16). 2 callers, I call with Jc9c on the Button, SB calls, Villain calls in BB.

FLOP: Qc7d4c (pot: $45, 6-ways)

SB checks. V1 donks $20. V2 calls, I call.

TURN: Qc7d4c Ts (pot: $105, 3-ways)

Villain bets $40. V1 calls. I call with the added OESD, because I’m getting worried my club is no good.

River: Qc7d4c Ts 6c (pot: $225, 3-ways)

I hit my flush, but….

V1 bets $100.
V2 calls the $100.

I….honestly have no idea what to do? Calling is the obvious play, but I can see merit in both raising OR folding. What do you think?

Folding would be ridiculous. V1 could easily be bluffing or valuebetting worse and V2 knows this and moreover would surely raise if he had you beat, right? I would probably call, but I'm not versed in this spread-limit BS at all, so I have no idea if this might be a raise or not. Folding would be out of the question, of that I'm sure.

Folding would be shockingly bad. Vs a whale Im almost inclined to raise and call if you are reraised. Sounds like you have played with him longer. These hand histories lately from most posters have lots of missing elements on villains. Like this hand has he ever donked before? Is he passive post or kind of wild? Calling someone a whale without describing what kind of whale makes it very difficult to give any meaningful advice.

The Whale obviously could wake up with a real hand and have us both beat, but I’m not really concerned about him—he’s essentially a non-factor.

I AM super concerned about V2. What is a competent Villain calling with here that we beat when I feel like I’m rather transparently on a flush draw that just got there?

Preflop and flop are standard.

Turn: I'm confused about the action. Who led the turn: V1 or V2?

Anyway, I like just calling here. Raising here seems like an overplay. Max raise offers Vs 2-1 on a call, so it's hard to see how we have sufficient fold equity against multiple ranges.

River: folding is absurd, even though we may not be good. The 6c isn't the greatest river, since it blocks the 6c5c or 7c6c that we wanted one of the Vs to have. 9d8d has rivered a straight and has to call at these odds. We block Kc9c which is nice, although V1 seems like a guy that can have Kc8c or Kc7c, so I'm not fist-pumping the dealer.

I expect to see V1 with the nuts occasionally too, but we're good often enough to call getting 4-1.

I’m sorry. V1 (the Blind) donk-led the Flop and Turn, V2 (the UTG pre-flop raiser) called both.

before reading it was the donk bettor and not the opener betting i would have just called but i think u should raise. whale can have anything and v2 should raise if he has u beat. id raise turn in nl for sure but less sure about spread limit

dont think u can fold either street ip for this size

Hand seems fine. Just call river.

There’s no merit in folding here lol

As everyone else says folding is not on the table. That means call or fold. In spread limit I don't hate raising then folding to a river 3bet.

V2 would raise any flush here. I think his range is capped with ops, sets etc. that little pfr could easily be 44 or 77. I’m raising all day long. I call any raise from the whale, if v2 put in a raise here it would be very strange. I would consider folding if he raises but it’s super weird if he does and would almost make me think he has a tell on you if you are going to raise.

I thought a huge portion of V2’s range—for just calling the River—consisted of the nuts, and he’s just calling because he’s putting the Maniac on air and thinks his only chance of getting more money is by getting me to overcall (or raise!) with my hand (which is very likely a lower flush).

I mean, if *I* was V2 and rivered the nuts, I think that’s what I would do.

i think people just raise when they make the nuts lol

Davo, I have read almost all your posts. You are not calling this river with the nuts. And against these players with your image you would be giving up more than you gain from an occasional overcall. Why go for $100 more when you could get $300 more if you have the nuts. How many hands is this guy calling $100 with he is not calling $200 with?

Have you got yourself a good limit book yet? Theres some really detailed stuff out there about river play.

Or the other question I had while tanking was, What hands can V2 have that

1- Raise UTG;
2- Just call the Maniac’s small donk leads twice on an increasingly wet board with players to act after him;
3- Call once the flush comes in on the River
4- That I can beat more than 1/3 times?

There are three AcQx, okay—but what the hell else is there?

look man. utg just called. if you're beaten it's way more likely youre beat by the bb. idc about the results of this particular hand even if they show that you're right, on aggregate if you see this situation hundreds of times the guy with the uncapped range is much more likely to have you beat than a guy who doesn't reopen the betting otr. people aren't doing weird rivers traps in almost any game let alone spread limit 1/2 game hoping that the guy ip randomly decides to minraise bluff into 2 people or raise the 3rd nut flush instead of just calling (or somehow finding a fold otr getting insanely good odds with great blockers). you're playing chess against people playing tic tac toe

the reads you have on bb suggest that you have the best hand vs him and even his b/c range a huge amount of the time so you should raise and i think you basically always win when utg calls after u raise. if you get 3bet we can reevaluate this but even then im going to be extremely hard pressed to fold vs either getting 7:1 for different reasons

Davo everyone’s telling you that this isn’t a fold, even the nittiest of nits on 2p2, if that won’t convince you i dont know what will.

If utg is flatting with the nuts hoping to get an overcall from you and not just raising the whale to make sure he gets $100 more he is lol bad or like I said he has some read on you that you don’t know about

Haha, OK! I guess I nit-rolled!

RESULTS:
Please don’t hate me but I actually RANDOMIZED a call here. I realllly thought V2’s range was weighted extremely heavily towards the two flushes that beat me. But I was getting such a good price….Decided I would fold 25% of the time (if I blind-picked the Jack twice), but drew the 9 on my first shot and flicked in the call.

V1 turbo-mucks.
V2 tables…..3c2c , because the preflop tendencies we think we have observed after a couple of hours are such a small sample as to be WORTHLESS!

He could have KQ/AQ or an overpair with or without a club — it is highly possible you are overstating his conscientiousness of your range and/or overstating his skill level. Given the showdown he’s clearly not a strong player.

submersible said it well…