Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove

05-21-2012 , 10:40 PM
Hi, first ever post on here. This hands been troubling me a bit.

Live 1/2 no limit game at a local casino. 10 handed. Villain has been playing pretty solid since I sat down, but over the past couple hands he seemed to be tilting a bit. He probably lost over half his stack in two rotations. Aside from that, he consistently showed up with pretty strong holdings. Flopped straights, sets, flushes. All played very aggressively and fast.

Hero (cutoff): $190
villain (BB): $165

Two limpers, I raise in the cutoff with AsKs to $15. Folds to the BB who calls and UTG limper who also calls.

Pot ~ $45
Flop: Kd2h3h

villain leads out for $35. UTG folds and Hero calls.

Turn: 6c
pot~$115

Villain looks at me and then at his chips and announces all in, for about $115. a pot sized bet. Essentially the rest of my stack. I tanked and sighed repeatedly. This seems like a pretty standard call the more I think about it, but I ended up folding. I flipped over my cards to try and get a read during the hand, but nothing. Stone cold. 4h5h, for a turned straight and a flush redraw kept running through my head. I also thought he could have some weird two pair hand like 23o or K6 that he wanted to fast play. (In a previous hand I saw him in, he shoved like 150bb into a pot of maybe 40bb when he flopped a straight and three hearts were on board. He did not have a heart in his hand). The only other kings in his range I think he could have are K9, KT, or KJ. I really think he would 3-bet AK and KQ from the BB. TT+ would also probably be a 3-bet.

What kind of range would you guys put him on here? Is the flop a shove after he donks? Or is the turn just a standard call? Anyways, thanks for the help. peace.
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote
05-21-2012 , 10:54 PM
Your reads are spot on IMO. And yes the flop is a raise. If he is donking with a fd we want to make him pay. If he has KQ, KJ, KT he will call. Med pairs may think we are just trying to take it down and call too. Once you call though he would do this with almost any top pair and if he is on tilt like you say could do it with TT or 99 or 88 too. You played it like a weak pair or a draw on the flop so he felt OK to bet these hands. I call pretty comfortably here.
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote
05-21-2012 , 11:03 PM
make the crying call I guess

villain would probably check raise with a set

seems like nfd or Kxhh
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote
05-21-2012 , 11:06 PM
I stopped reading after your flop call.

You have to raise there. There is a flush draw and a straight draw out there. You aren't deep and probably have villain crushed. Yeah, sometimes he's gonna fold Kx to your raise and you're gonna feel like you couldda got more out of him. But you'll never know where you stand on most turns if V bets and there's no guarantee he'll fold KQ. And you really shouldn't be encouraging people to think they can just lead into you whenever like this. Considering V's stack, I'd prolly just jam this flop, but if you want to raise a little smaller that's fine, too, I think.
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote
05-22-2012 , 01:18 AM
raise the draw. You have MUBS if you instantly imagine his hand as being 4h5h.

Guy could easily have KQ-Kx (how low depends on how fishy he is), random flush draw, etc.

Ship the flop. as played this is an insta call.
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote
05-22-2012 , 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomark
raise the draw. You have MUBS if you instantly imagine his hand as being 4h5h.

Guy could easily have KQ-Kx (how low depends on how fishy he is), random flush draw, etc.

Ship the flop. as played this is an insta call.
This, ESPECIALLY because you say he is tilting and has been losing. This read would lead me to think he has Kx here and is tired of losing so he is shoving to keep you from drawing out. I am ok with the call on the flop if you think it leads to this and are going to call or shove a blank turn like you got. Otherwise, I raise that flop!
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote
05-22-2012 , 03:29 AM
Im the odd man out here, I would call flop and call turn. No reason to force him to fold his air with a raise on the flop.
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote
05-22-2012 , 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomark
raise the draw. You have MUBS if you instantly imagine his hand as being 4h5h.

Guy could easily have KQ-Kx (how low depends on how fishy he is), random flush draw, etc.

Ship the flop. as played this is an insta call.
This!

OP, the biggest mistake fish and rec players make is that they always put their villains on a specific hand. Everytime I play I laugh (inside) at all the fish saying "i put you on X" when the reality is that V (villian) can have a bunch of different hands.

One of the biggest differences between rec fish and +EV players is that rec players think in terms of a specific hand whereas +EV players think in terms of RANGES and match it with villain tendencies and Hero's image and the table dynamics.

In short, based on your post you have a lot learn. Google: poker equity, ranges, Sklansky bucks, and EV...

Incidentally, as played this is an easy crying call. We have way too much equity here to fold to a PSB (pot sized bet)
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote
05-22-2012 , 11:14 AM
Grunch

Ide jam the flop. His donking range probably includes all kinds of draws/mid PPs/Kx type hands as well as sets and two pairs (the only legit 2 pair being 23s). You are ahead of most of this range. If hes got a set, then oh well, the money was probably going in anyway.

As played, I think this is a call. Yeah, 45s got there and it is definitely in his range, but seriously, do you know how hard it is to make a hand like that (4h5h specifically)? I think you probably MUBs here. I imagine that you aren't properly rolled for this game, since the is a pretty standard spot (call/jam/get the money in) unless you have got some super reads.

Also, don't EVER advertise big lay-downs unless your intention is to get players to try to bluff you off of hands and you are going to adjust accordingly. Even then, you will probably end up leveling yourself more often than not.
AKs, top pair against a pot-sized turn shove Quote

      
m