1/3 NLHE, nine-handed

Players play together often. I haven’t been for a while, but most of them know me. I’m seen as tight (46-yr-old white woman), but I can fold and a few of them know I can bluff. Most of them respect my bets/raises, although a few will chase with any draw.

Most of the players are younger with a few older tight guys (tighter than I am). The younger players are loose aggressive with a few who are a bit crazy. A few will call very light pre-flop (up to $40). One or two will stab at unopened pots and most are capable of bluffing. These guys all play regularly, including, tournaments, etc. (This is an underground room that runs regular games.)

Tonight, I’d say five of the young guys are decent LAG players but a few will call very light pre, one is crazier and will call with ATC and chase draws, the two older guys (bb and cutoff) are very tight.

It’s early, and most players have between $300 and $600; Hero has $400.

Seven limps (this almost NEVER happens -- happened only once tonight) to Hero in SB w/ AKo.

I elect to complete, although often I will raise this. I think tonight a raise to $30 - $40 will get two to three callers (UTG is calling almost 100% and it will escalate) and anything bigger will get folds. Should I always raise this from SB?

BB (tight old guy) checks.

Flop (~$23): AK8 rainbow.

What’s my action? Lead, check/call, check/raise?

Pot/pot/shove.

As played, C/R since it is unlikely to be checked around.

Pre - $25 of dead money in the pot, so I'd raise to $50. If they all fold, still a nice pot to drag.

Don't be afraid of raising pre, even if you make it $40 and it will go multi way, we need to get value from their limping range, don't forget if flop goes multi way and we miss we just tap the felt and wait for the next hand.
As Played
Yup, agree with IRTM pot pot shove.

But actually I think it could be more like $25, $75, $150. Shoving river might look pretty strong in a limped pot from OOP.

Raise pf to iso and for value.

I think that's missing value because 1) you have nothing much to protect your hand from (or get called by draws) except gut shots, and 2) you block so many Ax and Kx hands.

Def lead out though.

raise pre always. you are doing it for pure value and to get it heads up. if you had a hand like AJ, KQ esp if limpers are prone to limp AQ, AK, then limp. but AQ+ is a raise always. if everyone folds, you pick up 9bb VARIANCE FREE 100% of the time, which is great! if you get one or two calls, its great too since you likely have the best hand and dominate theirs. if you know you'll get 8 calls 100%, you still should raise!!!! you simply check fold 66% of the time and lose 10bb and 33% of the time you flop TPTK+ and dominate their ranges and win a huge pot. limping pre is losing value and you're playing fit or fold.

even if you got it heads up and villain has a hand like 22, 44, he can't really call flop when it comes QJ6r can he? im raising to 10bb pre here

8 BB variance free > whatever your current SB winrate is

limping with AK after 7 limpers is beyond terrible.

mods please move this to the beginners forum so he can get a scolding from mr. H

"I elect to complete"

Preflop should be a raise almost all the time. If your playing the same regulars a lot, flatting very rarely for deception value is OK.

As played, lead flop. You flatted pre for deception and you hit, take advantage of it. If you check it is just too likely to check around. Your unlikely to win a big pot but you should be able to get one bet out of weaker AX and various KX, plus somebody might call with the various one card straight draws. There is no reason to wait because it's unlikely any turn card helps you but nearly anything could beat you.

Interesting. I don't think I should raise every time here, but maybe I should according to you guys. What other hands should I be raising with from SB, because they are always expecting a big hand from me (even though it's not always true), especially from the blinds. (Most of these guys are aware of position.) Should it only be big hands from SB?

(QuadJ, I do know these guys well. This was basically for deception. They would expect a big hand if I raised.)

Results: I did lead ($20) hoping JQ or a weaker A would call, but everyone folded. Just making sure that leading is better than check/calling or check/raising. After the hand I kicked myself for leading, because I know at least one player would have taken a stab at it, and I'm not scared of many turn cards.

Hard to take advice from someone who doesn't actually read the OP. (I'm a woman.)

QuadJ, what turn cards besides possibly a T or J could hurt me? I guess someone could catch a set, but I can't be scared of that and it's extremely unlikely anyone limped a pair.

Any card between 2 and 8. 8 pairs the board and everyone limps small pocket pairs so if a small card hits in a 9 way pot you really have no idea. That's why you raise preflop.

So much value lost pre. As played, leading is correct.

That's a good point, johnnyBuz, but they are calling 100% pre-flop with any pair, any two face cards, any suited A, and most suited connectors or one-gappers, and they float a lot, so by raising I'm in the same position, which is fine. I know these guys well and it's a very profitable game.

As stated, I do raise this the majority of the time. (I would raise it 100% against players I was unfamiliar with.)

My question still is if I'm raising AK here every time from the SB, what else am I raising besides solid pairs or AQ? Or, is there no deception from the SB?

GRUNCH

I would raise AK 90% of the time in this spot. In such a loose game I'd raise quite big, probably 25-30. If UTG is calling 100%, then make it $150 and ship all flops.

As played, I'm leading 15-20 here. Leading looks weaker than a c/r in general, and you don't want to blow villains off Ax or give a free card.

Per the descript, 1/2 of the table is comprised of decent LAGs. Assuming they are LAG pre, I would expect some of them to raise (not limp) the hands you mention above. If they don't, perhaps they are more LP pre, LAG post, idk.

In limped pots I would look to raise almost ATC on the BTN given your image and this particular hh. In the blinds, I'd tighten my raising range. Nonetheless, your perceived image appears super strong to exploit weakness, i.e. limping.

Good. That's an awesome result when you raise with AK.

I agree, Tucco, that's why I usually do it

samo, most of them will raise with those hands in position, and they will limp small pairs and limp out of position, but definitely call a raise. Depending on who raises, they will limp re-raise, but not against me (unless they have a premium). In general, they are actually pretty good, thinking players, but they do love to gamble and are a bit loose. (Some are insanely loose, but they hadn't arrived yet.) And they know each other very well.

I guess I'll just play my blinds straightforward from now on and see what happens. I haven't been losing much from the blinds -- I almost always fold my SB.

From what I understand, this forum is more-or-less the "beginners forum" for live NL players as it is the lowest live NL forum around. Her post here is perfectly reasonable, imo.

GwelcometotheforumJavanewt,hopeyouaren'tscaredoffG

At a loose table where even a big bet probably gets multiple callers there isn't much you can do but play straightforward. Occasionally raise with some medium-small pairs and medium suited connectors that you would normally limp and occasionally limp with some hand you would raise. Because your range is going to be tight and fairly obvious, you need to raise bigger to punish villains who limp/call wide.

As for post flop, you hit the board so hard it's difficult for anybody to have a hand here. The problem is that your hand isn't as strong as a set, anybody that does make a hand they are willing to put a lot of money in with probably beats you. The only way you make money here is if somebody with a single pair makes a worse two pair on the turn, anything else has you beat.

This is the sort of board where a tight image hurts your chances to make money. Scary but dry board and an OOP tight player betting into a crowd? Nobody is going to credit you for a bluff, weak made hand or a draw. Betting here is actually more about protecting your equity then anything else. Against that many villains the combined chance that somebody hits a set or gut shot straight starts to add up and checking doesn't really give you much better chance of making money later.

Thanks, gobbledygeek. Definitely not scared of someone with such poor reading comprehension (And I'm not new!)

Anyway, a few others (whom I do respect) understand the complete for deception occasionally, so I'm good.

Nope this is not right.
The only time you should limp AK is to back raise aggro loose player(s) still to act behind, which is not the case here. AK really doesnt play well in a multiway limped pot.