Early in the session so no strong reads. No 3-bet pots yet either.

Hero has about $250, and opens UTG with AK for $10. MP 3-bets to $35. Folds to hero. MP has me covered.

Hero calls... (should I 4-bet here and play for stacks??)

Flop: 932r. Hero check-folds. I feel like I got owned in this hand.

Another hand:

Fishy villain opens to $10 - this is the same guy from a different post where he limped in and then called a 3-bet OOP with Q-9o. Hero has not won a pot against him all night. FV has about $200

V2 just sat down and is a younger guy who hasn't done anything noteworthy yet. V2 calls $10 and also has about $200.

Hero has AK in the SB and $160. 3-bets to $40. V1 and V2 call.

Flop is J 7 2 (Pot: $120)

Hero has $120 behind. This is just an auto-shove, right?

In the first hand, how big of a bet did you fold to?

Bad players also get AA, KK, QQ, JJ at times too. Always have an idea of what someone's raising range is. He may call with anything, even a 3-bet with Q9o, but with what does he raise?

hand 1: when we open readless UTG and someone re-pops us from MP (not even LP!) i'm not that excited about AKo anymore. if we had opened from LP and one of the blinds had popped us, i might be wondering if they were light / testing us.

i call, x/f in game. but in reality, i doubt he's doing this with AQo. if he's doing this with TT+, AQs, all AK, then we are behind and will be x/f a lot of flops. thus you could even find a fold pre - definitely not unheard of online when facing someone with a tight 3b and you've raised UTG. and again, i would not assume he is 3b you light without some evidence

hand 2: i'm auto-shipping here with two overs. if V1 is calling 3b with Q9o he'll have all kinds of worse garbage here. hope V2 has pocket 5s

assuming this is 1/2, btw...

I don't remember the flop bet sizing in hand 1. Let's say $50.

Yes, this is 1/2.

FV had done very little raising. He usually took more passive lines in hands. Yes, I know he has something decent here when he raises, but we have AK.

Are you bluffing, semi-bluffing, or betting for value? Explain your reasoning.

Auto shoving AK on this board in the 2nd hand, against two opponents, is pretty much lighting money on fire. At least you have 6 outs probably?

The first hand is all about your reads.

You're at 40% against JJ+, AK. If you add AQs and AJs to his range, you're at 45%.

Is there a slight chance he's got KQs? Could he be playing aggro with 88? It doesn't take much to nudge this toward a shove. Most 1-2 players aren't robotic; they get bored or get itchy or have a favorite hand. I think a shove is the next move, BTW. No getting away from it if you bet 100 and he calls.

There are only six combos of AA and KK at this point. Only three combos of AA; there's an ever-so-slight chance your shove could fold out KK.

I'm almost never folding unless he's a very tight player or I have a solid read that he's got the goods.

I think I'm shoving Hand 2. You can almost remove AA and KK from their ranges, given their call preflop. So what are you afraid of? PokerCruncher tells me both villains have a 4% chance of holding a set, if I give them a range of:
88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs+, AJo. Are they calling your shove with KJ? AJ? QQ? You have to know your image and their tendencies...

Shoving is aggressive, yes, and it might be -EV, but good things happen to aggressive players over time, as long as they're not stupid aggressive. Shoving doesn't feel stupid aggressive here.

3-betting pre to $40 and then check-folding when I whiff seems more like lighting money on fire than shoving. If I'm going to do that, then why 3-bet to begin with?

Mostly semi-bluffing.

I'm repping a made hand: JJ+ and AK, and depending on how accurately my opponents are ranging me, they may not include AK in my range. Most 1/2 players wouldn't shove AK here. Also, because I have AK, I'm also blocking my opponents from having some of those made hands.

Shoving folds out everything but JJ, QQ, some A-J, and a lot of K-J if my opponents are bad enough to show up with it here. AA and KK are rare in both my opponents' ranges because I have blockers and they just aren't going to flat a 3-bet here with AA/KK very often.

I think I take the pot down a lot with this bet. If I get called, it's going to be by QQ, JJ and 77, and I'm not sure 77 calls preflop, except maybe from the fishy villain. Against a set I'm dead, but how often do people have sets? Against QQ, the most likely holding, I still have 25% equity.

I don't think most 1/2 players are 3-betting UTG opens with KQs or 88. I would have to have a specific read to include hands like that in a 3-bet range. I'm guessing that his 3-bet range is probably JJ+ and sometimes AK.

CRAI seems spewy to me. But I can be convinced otherwise.

So then the two most important data points are 1) how often are you semi-bluffing with the best hand, and 2) what % of the remainder will you NOT be called.

In this case (aside from villain specific reads), it seems that 1) is low because the PF action smacks of made hands, and 2) is low because there are two villains behind.

I guess the primary purpose for my comment is a nagging thought that, as long as we ARE pot committed, we would actually rather call a bet in this situation, not make one, based on the relative betting and calling ranges of villains. I.e. check and call for value. In addition, aren't we more likely to triple through with a check and call?

In other words, does the FE in this situation really support an S-bluff?

Yeah, you might be right. Just looking at equity isn't really the right way to think about it.

Suppose his 3-bet range here is 99+, AK, AQ, AJ, and KQs. That's 66 combos. You're at 54% equity against this total range.

But let's say he folds everything except QQ+, AK. That's 21 that he calls and 45 combos that he folds.

So, 45 times he'll fold to your shove and you make $45.

The other 21 times you have 38% equity in a $500 pot [which equals $190]; you've paid $250 for this equity, so you're -60 on average these 21 times.

So. ... if I'm doing the math right, you can expect an average profit of about $11 each time you shove.

I dunno, looks like a shove to me unless you think he's tight.

[Or unless I did the math wrong.]

I think your calling range for villains in hand 2 is WAY too tight.

Villains in my games are calling that flop shove for 60BB with J8o+, all hearts draws, all combo draws, possibly 88-TT, A7o, maybe 2x depending on the player.

"they put you on AK"

I 3-bet pre to $40.

so what? don't make the mistake of assigning your poker knowledge/skills/what you would do in any situation to your opponents.

I wish I could play in games where I could 3-bet to $40 get get called by A7o. Where do you play???

Home games in Colorado.

I agree that this is a common leak for LLSNL players. It's been a leak of mine for a long time as well, and I've plugged a lot of it.

Results:

The first hand I folded and he didn't show but I have a hunch he had JJ or QQ.

The second hand the fishy villain folded and V2 tanked for 2 mins and finally called with KK.

AK in early position is not a great hand, gets you in trouble more often if you play it out of position. You are giving away your basically by only calling his 35$ 3 bet. Your only benefit here is to hope you hit the ace or king and you can take it down, but that means you won't earn any extra equity in this hand unless they nail a set and your drawing dead

"Hand" basically

If you're going to autoshove terrible flops against 2 opponents, why not just shove preflop? At least that way you get paid if an ace or a king flops.

Shoving $160 preflop over a $10 raise and one call seems pretty horrible.