2/5

stacks
hero 1850-1900
V1 650-700
V2 1000-1100

image
Hero - TAGGY . I would not say I been overly aggressive on the whole but I can see myself been very aggressive from other players point of view. I had been pounding on the table all night as it is weak/passive
V1 - didn't really seem that decent. only hand i can remember is when he shoved from the sb on hero when hero raise on the button BB snap called rolls over A 10 and win without hitting so not sure what V1 was trying there.
did seem to call a lot but never seen a hand at showdown
V2 - is pretty decent only other player at the table with any kinda game sense will shove on big combo draws and when he has a big hand

Hero UTG with AK raises to 20
mp calls
v1 calls in LP
V2 calls on the button
BB calls

pot 100

Flop is K 4 3
check to hero who bets 65
V1 calls
V2 raises to 200
fold to hero
Hero ??????

I elected to bet 20 UTG as betting anymore will just get lots of fold but the problem is if 1 calls then you usually get 4+ calls.
On the flop I was pretty certain I had the best hand and wanted to get value from draws/weaker hands etc. in hind site I should maybe bet 70-75 on flop.
After the raises I was really stuck I knew that if I call this is am pretty much committing my stack into the pot due to the SPR as I was pretty certain V1 would be calling as well.
I also noted that I didnt have the Ace of hearts which made me think that V2 could be doing this with some big draw and that it might be a flip.
V2 is a reg that i play against week in week out so i knew he had some kinda hand and that it was just not a squeeze or any kinda stone cold bluff.
is this just a fold give how deep I am against him, I dont think he would be doing this with anything weaker than AK which he does slow-play a lot.

what would you of do in this situation and what would you of done differently in this hand??????

This is a classic spot between 2 regs. If you have been 'overly' aggressive in the eyes of V then perhaps it is a play, but you have to go back on your history with V and make a decision right here .. so I agree on that point in your post.

Doubt V does this with nothing, so you have to assume Kx min with A5hh/set max. Doubtful he has 2 pr here. Has V ever done this and then shut down for the rest of the hand?

My impression is you have 'better' fish to fry at this table rather than take on a reg in a potentially high variance spot OOP. That being said I can flat,fold, raise/fold (not often) and raise/gii depending on my feel for the spot. You are way deeper than you think you are IMO as well.

AP .. why do you want a multi-way pot with AK OOP in a bloated pot as opposed to being able to narrow some ranges down and be HU? Are you prepared to call any 3-bet? What is V2 image of your UTG raises? Do you change your raise size based on hand strength?

AP ... I like your Flop bet if you plan on b/f a high percentage of the time you get 3-bet but it also allows for you to call and remain fairly deep at nearly 180bb effective with V2.

This is a pure read, but don't think you are committing your stack by flatting here. There is no shame in folding either, but if you auto-c-bet regularly and V2 can put you on 99+ then you have very little reason not to call and c/c safe Turns. V has put in your Turn bet in on Flop so to speak ... keep the pot under control and show V that you are just getting a run of cards tonight if you can get to a reasonable showdown.

If V can double barrel bluff often enough, then you can consider folding Flop and just work on spots against the rest of the table. Poker is not one hand, you already know this .. lose a battle to win the war so to speak. GL

Yes. Based on your read and how deep you are, you have to fold. Playing OOP blows.

Pre is fine. I think you should check the flop. There are 3 other players to act and you don't hold a strong enough hand to build a big pot OOP against multiple players. Check and see how they act. You can check-call or check-raise depending on who bet and how much. If there is a bet and raise after your check, you can fold.

If villains had around $500 or less to start, I would bet the flop and shove after a raise.

lol wtf bbq

Its a interesting position because IMO I feel like this is a move a lot of people do with flush draws. A 3b to build the pot with lots of equity, it also gives them the betting lead, also fold equity from the 3b

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This is a terrible spot. Looks so much like a flush draw (possibly combo), because otherwise we are only behind 33 or 44. This is probably a fold against this player, especially with another player behind, but please don't show

Feels like a flush draw or a set. Easy fold for me OOP with so little in the pot. If he had less money I might think about it.

Hero should not be checking this flop...

Grunch

In spots like these it's pretty tough to play a one pair hand(even TPTK) because stacks are so deep. If you compiled a reasonable range on this guy since you say its never a random bluff with air what would it be? Would it look some like AK, Axhh. 65hh 33 44 type stuff? If so one pair really doesn't fair that well vs that range.

It sounds like you have a lot of history with the guy, so your range is more reliable than my rough range. You have only invested 17 bb and you are risking 200 bb, we can't just be auto stacking off in this spot with TPTK. I am bet folding AK and feeling ok about it.

Hero should consider a check on the flop if the original plan is to bet-fold. I'm not super excited 200BB+ with TPTK on a moderate texture flop against 5 players without Ah and OOP. Hero's bad position is the overriding factor. A check isn't giving up. Hero can check-raise the flop, or check-call and check-raise the turn if he senses weakness. Sometimes its ok to get information for free.

I would bet if the table has been super passive and typically folds to cbets. I don't think betting more helps and if you choose to cbet, $55-65 is about right.

I'm seeing some flawed logic here.

A) bet folding is better than check calling or check raising. What worse hands do you expect will call a check raise?

B) When we C bet with TPTK we are getting value from all draws and one pair hands. Checking accomplishes nothing; we don't define ranges, we don't get value from worse and we have no idea where we are at.

C) Bet folding TP type hands is a weapon we need in our arsenal, especially when playing deep. When we bet and are raised or x raised we know our opponents range is likely ahead of our hand. If we bet larger it forces our villan to raise larger. Often times the hands that are callin 65 are calling 75 or 80.

A) I would check-raise (depending on the action) to take the pot not build value expecting a call. A check-raise should get all draws but straight-flush draws to fold. A cbet with a couple callers builds a pretty big pot. I think this deep, hands like 76, 75, 65, and random wheel draws are all within villains calling range because of the huge implied odds of hitting. Any heart, 7,6,5, or 2 should be considered a bad turn, a heart being the most obvious.

B) This is true. There are downsides to checking. We also risk giving a free card if no one bets. I think there's a good chance a spazzy V1 or semi-bluffing V2 could bet.

C) I think we see a lot of semi-bluffs especially based on hero's description of V2. We can't be sure we're raised only by better hands. Sometimes checking TP is good to have in our arsenal too.

To be clear, I don't think betting is bad and checking is good. I think both are not great options because our position sucks and we're against 4 players. Our hand is good enough but vulnerable enough to lose our whole stack or get bluffed later. Sure we get value from KQ/KJ but any reasonable draw should at least call because of the major implied odds. We're also crushed by an unlikely set. I think we really hope our cbet takes the pot and I don't think that's realistic vs 4 players. Checking risks less and gets us cheaper info. I would play this hand slowly.

I would never check against 1 or 2 players or in position.

This is a terrible spot, but it's a fold. You want to be the guy who makes money off the guy who won't let go of TPTK, not that guy who wont let it go.

I think there is a chance you are behind to a set, and best case you are flipping with a flush draw. Unless you have a read that says this guy could do it with KQ, but I don't think that is happening here, and if it is, that is one of the reason that being out of position blows.

Let him take this one, don't let it tilt you, and go after the fishier players

I really struggled playing this OOP. I put the ranges that I thought V2 would have in pokerstove and was 35-65. I had been playing well that session and didnt really see the need to get into a spot with TPTK deep stack so i ended up folding.
I was kinda happy but little frustrated.
V1 then shoves all in V2 thought about it and called
V1 A9 of hearts for flush draw
V2 AK
After the hand I was thinking that V2 lowest part of range was AK so was a little disappointed but saw the bigger picture that I can lay decent hands down when i think i am behind.

good fold. poker stove is fantastic, dont get me wrong, but sometimes you just can tell that you are beat, and you did the right thing here

A) I would check-raise (depending on the action) to take the pot not build value expecting a call. A check-raise should get all draws but straight-flush draws to fold. A cbet with a couple callers builds a pretty big pot. I think this deep, hands like 76, 75, 65, and random wheel draws are all within villains calling range because of the huge implied odds of hitting. Any heart, 7,6,5, or 2 should be considered a bad turn, a heart being the most obvious.

We are beating draws why would we want them to fold? Again I see more flawed thinking. X raising would accomplish folding all hands we beat and only getting called by worse. Imo we ran into the bottom of our villans ranges this time.

Given they had the draw and AK, it's not even a terrible fold in hindsight. You have about 33% equity in a 3way pot vs the draw and the AK (2/3 of time you get a chop) and 50% equity for teh heads up part against the AK, once the draw is all in for less. So, in hindsight, we lost "our share" of teh dead money already in there but we had about even equity on the money yet to go in. So given this was the BOTTOM of V2's range, we played fine.