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AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get?

02-21-2024 , 06:25 AM
1/2 nl, loose and splashy table but not totally crazy. Decent mix of different player tendencies too. UTG ($250 eff.) is a LAG, HJ ($150 eff.) is super drunk and clueless, BB ($400 eff) is an older Asian woman. I haven't seen much of her, but my impression is that she acts like a nit and seems tight, even though I haven't seen her showdown many hands yet. She's also very expressive and nervous, seems very readable and also a little confused about everything, basically just a bit weird in general.

I have about $320 eff in LJ. UTG raises to $10. Hero 3-bets to $35. HJ, BB, and UTG call.

Pot: $140

Flop:
Ah, Js, 4c

On the flop, BB seems to have some notable emotion about this flop, thinks for a while, but checks. UTG checks. Hero bets $45. HJ calls, BB calls, and UTG calls.

Pot: $275

Turn:
3h

Now BB donks for $45. UTG calls. I call. HJ folds.

Pot: $365

River:
10c

BB makes a brief facial expression of unhappiness with this card, thinks for a while, and then goes all-in for $150. UTG snap folds and now it's on me.

Call or fold?
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 09:08 AM
BB seems to have started the hand with $275 in their stack if the action is being reported correctly.
AJ is the only reasonable hand I would be worried about on the flop (yes, 44 and A4 are possible but if they are then other Ax and more are also in the range for the utg and hj). So you can bet somewhat larger and hope Ax comes along

About your read on BB, what do you take their expression to mean on the flop? Could be JJ?
At the river, acting disappointed then shoving $150 seems like a "weak means strong" play. But my money would have probably been in the middle before the river.

Last edited by Man of Means; 02-21-2024 at 09:19 AM.
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 11:55 AM
We can probably go bigger with our 3B in this game.

Multi-way on the flop, not last to act, we should probably just check and see what everyone else does.

Turn is just a flat call. River is just a pure fold, especially with the tells she's giving off.

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AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 12:05 PM
Pre is good. If you are going to bet the flop, which I do, don't price them in with such a small bet -- go at least $70.

I just gii on the turn or fold. What's the point in calling unless it's to call the river? As played, I call.
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 01:27 PM
OP if someone donked $5 on the turn would you flat?

the $45 bet into $275 screams weakness and the pot is big. GII on the turn and charge people to draw.
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 01:44 PM
I could be wrong about everything here, so take this FWIW.

I think GTO says we should check or bet very small on the flop, because multiway, and / or because we're checking 100 or c-betting 100, and if it's c-bet 100, it's for a small size, even smaller multi-way.

If we're not c-betting 100, and only c-betting at a low frequency, we're supposed to go bigger, but I think that's more for heads-up play, not multi-way.

This 1/3 pot sized c-bet doesn't seem likely to accomplish much beyond getting folds from hands that would have folded to a smaller bet, or calls from hands that would also call a larger bet, and in those scenarios, we'll often be behind bottom/middle set or top 2P.

Exploitatively, her mannerism is a tell. It's either genuine, because she caught a big a piece of the flop, or fake, because she wants us to think she did so we'll check back and let her draw on the cheap.

Most likely, it's genuine, and she doesn't realize we're paying attention to her reactions. There aren't many obvious draws that would be worried about having to call a flop c-bet. No flush draws, and the straight draws are just 4-outers.

If she's thinking on the "fake tell with my ISSD to induce a check from TPTK" level, she's probably also on the "donk-bluff with my ISSD" level, which brings us to the turn...

Turn card is a pretty big brick. Her donk lead for 1/6 pot doesn't make a ton of sense, but the most likely explanation is she has top 2 or bottom set and is just milking us for value. If she has AJ, she blocks AA and JJ, so there aren't too many hands we can rep that would raise here.

Not sure what better hands we'd expect she might fold. Like, doubtful she's folding AJ or 44 if we raise, and if she's doing this with KQ, is she folding that now? Are we just going to jam to rep AA?

We can't fold to this sizing, obviously, but at this point I think we're just calling and hoping the river is a K, or brings in a straight draw and she checks, not that we'd be attempting to bluff her off 2P or a set if that happens.

Her scowl at the river card is also likely genuine, a sign that she's wondering if we got here with KQ. If she's worried about KQ, she has a hand that was most likely ahead, like top 2 or a set, and isn't really "bluffing" when she jams. She's just decided that she's going with her hand and we're getting her money if we got here with KQ.

If all her tells are fake, then her most likely holding is KQ. Either way, I have no idea what we're beating here if we call her jam.
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 01:55 PM
I've seen a handful of people like the one you're describing, and I most commonly associate this with two pair.

Also you said 400 eff. at the start of the hand for BB but she shoves for 150 at the end of it. So did she only have 250 at the start?
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 02:40 PM
I'd play pretty similarly and fold the river to the player you've described.

I know some players like this and their bet sizing in relation to pot size doesn't actually mean much as they generally play in absolute sizes in their mind.

She probably thinks she's betting big on the turn and river.
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 02:56 PM
If you honestly think she loves the flop, why bet at all? Just go into check/call or check/fold mode on the flop.

I think the small bet let's them call w/ anything and might make them think you are weak. The small bet accomplishes very little, and it makes the rest of the hand confusing for you.

If you bet bigger on the flop, you get a much better idea of how strong your opponents are.
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote
02-21-2024 , 05:02 PM
Op says "seems very readable" yet this whole hand hinges on reads they aren't sure of.
Unless, of course, this is a question where OP is reading big strength and asking what's our minimum calling hand.
AK hits top pair in super bloated multiway pot. How sticky should you get? Quote

      
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