1/1 home game, no rake. The host let people buy in for over $1,000, and it plays like 2/5.

V (covers) is a pro who earns $40,000 to $70,000 a year playing mostly 2/5 but also some 5/10. He is the hero’s friend and sometimes coach. He more or less knows hero’s opening ranges.

Hero (425) is TAG.

OTTH

V opens UTG+1 to 15. LJ calls. Hero in HJ with AdJd raises to 60. V calls. LJ folds.

Flop (135): KcQd7s

V checks. Hero?

I probably wouldn't 3bet here as a default unless you're up against 2 weaker players. Calling is probably better.

As played though this should be a mandatory half pot bet.

I think we should be betting more like 2/3 - 3/4 pot. We have the range advantage and nut advantage

PRE - looks good to me.

FLOP - bet 1/3 pot.

TURN - bet 2/3 pot.

Results:

Hero bet 60. V folded. I thought I heard a little sigh. Hero mucked.

I can get behind a call preflop because LJ was a loose, weak calling station. But I was mainly focused on V. I thought V would think, hero knows the gap principle, he has a tight range, he wouldn't 3bet my UTG open raise without anything worse than AQs. V opens UTG as low as 77, A5s, A4s, QTs, etc. so I figured I was mostly ahead here. Getting a pro to fold preflop was a good result (of course, we shouldn't be results oriented).

I take it you meant he folded on the flop, not pre-flop.

Is the implied question here whether or not we should 3B pre, or c-bet this flop as a bluff, or what size you should have taken, or something else?

Are you looking for the solver-approved answers, or the exploitable line, or for an explanation of why we do one thing or another?

A lot of good players will play their entire range as a raise-or-fold pre, from every position. Raising AJs here seems okay. Maybe it's more cuspy than I realize. I like to play, hate to fold, and generally err on the side of aggression, so take anything I say with that in mind.

This flop seems like a good one to c-bet for value or as a bluff when we're the PFR. Our hand seems like it would have enough equity to bet.

The c-bet size seems a little too big, for value or a bluff, but not crazy.

If V is your sometimes coach, did he have any notes for you later on?

Hand is well played in my opinion, i wouldn't change anything.

We three-bet pre, and the villain just called. On the flop, we should bet small, like 1/4-1/3 pot with our entire range. Why is this even a question?

im a sucker for suited bways and backdoor straight flush draws so id say bet big

Yes to first, he folded the flop my error. no to second question.

Not a good sizing on this board or live lowish stakes for value or as a bluff.

Technically can fold preflop to 15xBB UTG.

brag post?~

A pro playing 1/1? I'm 3betting him pre all day bc they don't like to fold pre, they like to "defend", so we make more money. We can also flat but it's always better to be the aggressor in the hand whenever possible. 40K/yr in 2/5 is pretty much break even. When I was playing 2/5 as my only income source my bills were over 3K/mo, I wouldn't even be able to eat if I was only making 40K/yr. Also, what people tell you and what they're actually making are two different things (they will always inflate the numbers) hopefully he has a wife or gf who has a good job then.

The best flops to cbet in 3bet pots imho are ace high and king high flops bc everyone knows AK is well within our range.

The hand was played fine/standard.

A 2.5 pro villian raises 15x from UTG+1 in a 1/1 fame and yall are discussing 3 bet or call. Its a fold, and if it isnt (it is), its a 3 bet.

Theres basically zero value in ever calling in a game where the raise sizing is so big that there are effectively no blinds. Id also happily play T7s against a fish than AJs against a pro.

Also thats about as standard of a cbet as they come.

It may be standard to raise 15xBB. I agree a fold is probably best with nothing in the pot to start.

This guy is likely a bad 2/5 pro, given his reported win rate and that he is playing this loose 1/1 game. However, he may be the best player at the table, so why get involved against his ep raise.

"Plays like 2/5" doesn't generally mean "Opens are the same size as if we were playing 2/5 even though we aren't" ... no 2/5 game I've ever been in had open raises to 75.

I guess, but get a new coach.

Presumably, it plays like 2/5 in that the open raises are to 15. It doesn't mean the raiser is a bad player if 15 is within the standard range and people are calling 15. It might be a lot worse to raise to 5 in that sort of game.

I wouldn't look at it as a 15x raise pre. That would equate to a $75 UTG+1 raise in 2/5; of course I would fold to that, and only 3bet with aces or kings.

It's a 1/1 game and the villain has hero covered. Hero has 425 bb's, that means the guy and most likely the rest of that table has more, maybe 600 to 800+ bb's.

When the stacks get that deep, the blinds are really meaningless. It's like the 1/3 MTSG at TS, the blinds are 1/3 but several ppl have $5/6/7K+ in front of them.

It pretty much does.
Think of a range that opens to 15bb EP, and then calls 45 more not closing the action against a 425bb player in position... that then x/f on KQ7r.
Maybe JJ isn't spew, maybe (and hero blocks that).


Now maybe everyone is getting drunk and having an orgy after with H ... that's fine, but V better be not intentionally playing his A game for some reason or you should be very dubious of any of his advice, IMNSHO.

If its a really loose splashy home game 15 here is probably just the standard open and shouldnt be gauged the same as someone opening to 15 in a 100nl online game. If everyone is opening to 15 and getting calls then its no different than opening to 5. Typical live players are very inelastic to bet sizing preflop. If they were gonna call T8s from MP for 5 or 8 they are probably still calling it for 15 in a game like this.

I can think of adjustments I'd make when blinds got to 1000bb+ deep, but open shoving 22 seems like more fun than opening to 15bb in EP with any range ... nevermind then calling a 3bet OOP and whiffing on KQx.


I feel like I'm in a weird alternate reality where if there were no blinds at all ya'll would still open T9s UTG for 5bb.

Have you ever played a 1/2 or 1/3 game with 6xBB opens. Welcome to the alternative universe. I don't play home games, but maybe you don't get invited if you play tight.

You wouldnt look at it that way? Well it is that way. Youre telling me how many BBs deep they are, so we are talking about depth in relation to big blinds but not sizing?


If the standard raise size at a 2/5 game was $75, and i was 425 bbs deep ($2125), the correct adjustment is not “only 3 bet with aces or kings”. The goal is to make as much money as possible in relation to time. The most profitable line to take is the one that is most EV+ against their range, and if they have a standard range, you can 3 bet a range thats linear and is ahead of their range. The same would be true if there were no blinds at all. You would also be opening to $75 yourself with a range that you can play profitably against your opponents calling ranges (which may be on the tighter side)

You have basically no reason to ever call preflop, because theres effectively no pot odds. (Contrary to the fish logic that incorrectly says “you should always call when it goes 7 ways because of pit odds”, the blinds are what actually gives pot odds to call, NOT live money voluntarily invested)

And it honestly shouldnt be hard to be an action player at these types of games, but the action should be 3 betting, not calling, and should be against the worst players at the table.

It is a weird game with raises to 15xBB, but silly to compare it to a 2/5 game and raises to 75. Optimal strategy is probably to play tight preflop versus huge opens.

Why is the "pro" raising 15bb UTG if it's terrible?

I took "plays like 2/5" to mean that the opens are bigger, because the stacks are deeper, and that the game is kinda wild given the blinds are only 1/1. I also thought it might just mean that $15 is a more standard open size at 2/5.

Opening 15bb seems insane, maybe, unless anything less is getting called by everyone. I wasn't really thinking about V's open size, just OP's response, IP, with AJs, behind a flat caller. Squeezing there seems okay, if hero knows V's range well enough to believe he's ahead of most of it.

As for V's decision to flat hero's 3B OOP with the LJ still in the hand, it just looks to me like he was set-mining and missed. I'm not sure if it's defensible to set-mine when hero only has $425 to start the hand. Maybe it is if LJ is deep enough.

Maybe that's why V sigh-folded? He was hoping LJ would have over-called, and knew he wasn't getting the right IO to set-mine when LJ folded, and then whiffed on a KQx flop?