1/2 casino game. Game is average with decent action. Action has been picking up over the last hour with several big pots. V in this hand has had a few beers and is talking a lot with me and having a good time. About 20 minutes earlier we were in a pot where I raised with AQ pre, turned top 2, bet, he check raised with a gutshot and flush draw, and we got it all in and I held. So I know he is capable of being creative, aggressive, etc. Definitly not just fit or fold per se but by no means a good player either. Kind of a lagtard. SO he reloads for $200 and hero has about $500.
In this hand V limps UTG and then actually walks away from the table for second while it folds to hero in LP. So obviously he is not TOO interested in his hand.
Hero raises to $12 in LP with AsJs.
Only V calls after a little "come play with your buddy" line from me.
Flop = Jc6x6x rainbow
Check, H bets $15, V calls.
Turn Kc - Check, check
River 2x - V bets $55
I ask him if he has a 6 and he nods yes. As I am thinking about it then he says "I'm am tired of you pushing me around" with a smirk.
1) How reliable is his line about having a 6 to you? How often do you think people are honest? I think they usually are, especially if you are being friendly. On the other hand, maybe this guy is just trying to "get his money back." He is a unknown to me except for the last few hours. I know some people who are ALWAYS honest, but with this guy I can't be 100% certain. He is pretty polarized on the river. He either has 6 or I am good. It also usually seems like big bets = big hands, but not always and sometimes 1/2 players overvalue hands. Maybe he thinks his QJ is good or a med pair, but IDK how often. I know my line would be the same with A high here.
2) Should we be betting a smallish bet on the turn? Would this give us more information about our opponents and/or save us money if we are beat? Or is checking better for pot control/decpetion? I am assuming our opponent range on the flop is a weaker J, pocket pair, a random 6, or maybe some A high hand that he is floating with.
If he seems like he is being honest he likely is. I am constantly buddy buddy with anyone on my left or right. It is amazing how many people will just tell you the truth. I'd just go with your read. Anytime someone is talking it means they are comfortable, when they are comfortable they usually have a big hand. This is why talking while playing a hand is bad, it gives away information. I say fold and move on if he is bluffing he may show and you can adjust your play from there.
As for how you played the hand I think it was fine. The turn may be closer to a bet fold rather than a check. It wouldn't be for info, if your betting it's for value vs a weaker range. The K doesn't really hit our villan other that KJ so betting is likely best. If I bet turn im checking lots of rivers to see a showdown.
I like the hand as played. I don't like continuing on a paired board, Vs will too often just check call and then bomb the river. I don't care what he is saying on the river, the bet tells me I now have to make a soul read to actually be right in a call. Better spots in my opinion, like the one where you stack him. Why call here?
Checking the turn while in position will usually induce a river bet from this kind of player. I would have bet 2/3 pot. What was our plan when we checked the turn?
I would tend to believe he does have us beat, I have yet to see "I am tired of you pushing me around" be anything other than a strong hand. But because of our passive play we don't know what "strong" means on this river.
A turn bet makes this hand easier to play IMO. By checking you encourage him to bluff the river and now you're in an awkward spot.
His table talk makes him look stronger to me but I wouldn't make too much out of it because I'm not sure it's really that meaningful.
This guy has had a few beers and c/r you on the turn on a semi bluff before. You think he is kind of a lagtard. With the pot odds you're getting I'd be tempted to call.
Also if he has a 6, people tend to play A6 more often than they play K6, Q6, etc. You have an ace which is a blocker to some A6 combinations. OTOH he could have 76 or 65 or play a hand like J6 anyway, but while he could have a 6, I don't think it's that likely.
A turn bet makes this hand easier to play IMO. By checking you encourage him to bluff the river and now you're in an awkward spot.
His table talk makes him look stronger to me but I wouldn't make too much out of it because I'm not sure it's really that meaningful.
This guy has had a few beers and c/r you on the turn on a semi bluff before. You think he is kind of a lagtard. With the pot odds you're getting I'd be tempted to call.
Also if he has a 6, people tend to play A6 more often than they play K6, Q6, etc. You have an ace which is a blocker to some A6 combinations. OTOH he could have 76 or 65 or play a hand like J6 anyway, but while he could have a 6, I don't think it's that likely.
Agree. The check on the turn gave him the green light to bet the river. Soul-read time.
easy fold. His speeches lean toward strength, you've only got 30 bucks in the hand.
I prefer checking back this flop. It's really hard for him to have a worse hand that calls any bet. Then you can call bets the turn/river, or bet/fold them yourself.
I think this hand becomes a lot easier if you bet $30 on the turn.
Most times you are good there IMO.
As far as his two lines, I don't believe the first one (I have a 6) but do think he's strong on the second one which is contradicting.
So my take is that if I have to really think about this and I'm not really sure on whether he has it or not, I'm probably beat and will fold. I only got $30 in the hand.
Ugh. Considering his river actions, i.e., nodding he has a 6, then changing his story to, "Nah, I'm bluffing cause you're always pushing me around," I fold. With the speech, I think he's more towards huge hands than air.
I think betting the turn does give you valuable information, even though it's building the pot (is this the dreaded bet for info? if so, seems questionable). If you bet 25-30 on the turn, and he still pots it into you on the river, I fold much more easily. As played, there are many questions: does he have a J, a 6? Did he hit the K randomly? Did he read your turn check as weakness (like you have AQ/AT/77-TT?)
I'd want some more reads on him. Would he limp call OOP with a hand like 76s or 65s or is he more likely to do that with a hand like JT?
I would bet/fold $25-30 OTT. As played, I think I'm calling here. It's a pot sized bet and kind of looks like he wanted to check raise the river but most Vs would go for value with a smaller bet. Looks like he's trying to by it and maybe that means he does have a big hand but I think you're good here more than half the time and the pot is laying you two to 1.
