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AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre

09-17-2021 , 01:20 PM
Eight-handed 2/5 at Aria. Most players look like regs and are 20s/30s guys. I am a 53-yr-old woman.

Hero $500 UTG: I just sat down. I don't think I've played a hand.
V covers BTN: late 20s, longish hair, I get the sense that he's lose/aggressive, but it's just a gut feeling based on how he looks and holds himself.

H raises to $15 w/ AhJd (I've seen a couple of hands, and this was the raise, so I went with it. I have not seen any action.)
UTG+1 3bets to $45. He is a 35-yr-old who seems tightish (again a feeling based on playing for so many years -- take it for what it's worth). However, he gets three callers, so I come along. (UTT+1 mentions that he wasn't expecting so many callers.)

Flop (~$220): Jh7d9d.

I like it, but I'm not thrilled with it, so I check (blinds had folded). It checks to V who makes a move as if he wants to bet, but he checks.

Turn ($220): Jh7d9d 5h.

Hero?
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-17-2021 , 02:26 PM
I think check again, maybe call one bet, don't call a bet and a raise. I'd rather do that and under-rep our hand than bet out and not know what to do if we get raised.

I don't love preflop, neither the first open, nor flatting the 3bet. Suited I'd consider, but off suit I'm definitely mucking to the 3bet
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-17-2021 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
neither the first open
I wouldn't open this hand UTG 9 or 10 handed, but 8 I think it is pretty cuspy.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-17-2021 , 02:56 PM
So if I read right this is 5 handed?

Yeah, UTG AJo is debatable/depends.

After flop checked thru we have to bet out here on turn. I bet $120 to take it down/thin the field. Easy bet/fold to raise. I never check turn here, we have to take other players action at face value until they show differently here
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-17-2021 , 06:51 PM
Preflop is prob a 4bet or fold spot and since AJo is prob the worst offsuit ace you'll raise from this spot, best to just fold it and move on. Wouldn't blame a 4bet though, there's a lot of dead money in the pot and it puts UTG+1 in a really difficult spot with everything except kings and aces, and you block aces. May not have the stack depth to get away with it though, which is fine, I'm not big on the idea that you should always buy in max. Calling is the worst option imo, this hand is going to be a nightmare to play oop given the preflop action.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-18-2021 , 01:01 AM
Ive been playing 2/5 at Bellagio and Aria for about a year now, in my experience 3bets in 2/5 at Bellagio and Aria tend to be a very narrow range. I think this is a fold pre sucks but you'll find a better spot
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-18-2021 , 08:20 AM
I'd fold to the 3B pre. At 100 bbs effective, a 4B would put us in a small SPR post.

As played, keep Xing OOP.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-19-2021 , 03:28 PM
I agree that folding to the 3bet was probably best, but with all the callers, I thought seeing a flop for $30 more wasn't terrible.

After all the checks, I was feeling pretty good about my hand. The 5h didn't change much unless 68 called pre, which I know is possible Also, I hold the Ah.

For once, I decided to down-bet. I went $85. I figure if UTG+1 has an over pair, I'll find out quickly.

It folds around to BTN who picks up a stack of green and puts me all in.

Hero?
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-19-2021 , 04:23 PM
Fold pre both times. The first time is whatever, but the second time I don't like because the 3 bettor's range is presumably really tight and we get to an SPR in which we're committed post flop if we flop top pair (which isn't amazing in this spot.)

With the given flop action I would expect to be good very frequently. I highly doubt this is theoretically sound because people are supposed to protect checking ranges, but I would bet $150 ott to target worse pairs/pairs + draws, and draws.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-19-2021 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I agree that folding to the 3bet was probably best, but with all the callers, I thought seeing a flop for $30 more wasn't terrible.

After all the checks, I was feeling pretty good about my hand. The 5h didn't change much unless 68 called pre, which I know is possible Also, I hold the Ah.

For once, I decided to down-bet. I went $85. I figure if UTG+1 has an over pair, I'll find out quickly.

It folds around to BTN who picks up a stack of green and puts me all in.

Hero?
Probably a good size in theory, but not one I'd use in practice.

People don't protect their checking ranges, so I'm never folding at this SPR.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-19-2021 , 06:01 PM
Its definitely a cusp hand to open UTG but its really close plus they are obviously calling EP opens to wide so I think its fine.

Facing the 3! I think its a snap fold though, UTG+1 3betting the UTG opener should be a really tight range, and multi way I think its best to just under defend out of position. If you had raised 6x over two limps OTB and the SB 3!s and the limpers call then continue every time but in this configuration, this far down in your range I'd just let it go and pray to see a showdown to see what these guys are cold calling 3!s with.

On the turn I would check mainly because of board texture (which makes this hand really interesting, especially in a pot where players flatted a 3!). That turn really does change a lot imo. Most of the hands we're up against are going to be suited in a 3! pot so I would expect to get called only by hands that have a TON of equity like combo draws, pair plus flush draws, pair plus gutter plus flush draw, pair plus double gutter plus flush draw. A lot of those hands would check back the flop as well due to the fact that their equity didn't skyrocket until the turn. Any standard sizing you use is going to give those hands (which there are a lot of combos of) a great price to draw.

As played I would expect to be up against one of these big draws that wants some fold equity and just call it off. After all the BTN was getting one hell of a price pre flop so he should have all combos of those big draws and pair plus draws.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-20-2021 , 06:12 AM
Pre is a trivial fold to the 3bet, this should be around the bottom of our opening range so there's no need to defend.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-20-2021 , 06:25 AM
With minimal reads at the table, folding pf the first go around is best. With better reads (and a passive table) I can see raising the first go around. However, AJo is a RIO hand. It should be folded to the raise. The turn is the classic RIO dilemma. You might be good, but you can easily be crushed to the raise.

As played if I was you, I'd call. An unknown 53 year old woman is to be presumed to fold TP to pressure on the turn.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-20-2021 , 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
With minimal reads at the table, folding pf the first go around is best. With better reads (and a passive table) I can see raising the first go around. However, AJo is a RIO hand. It should be folded to the raise. The turn is the classic RIO dilemma. You might be good, but you can easily be crushed to the raise.

As played if I was you, I'd call. An unknown 53 year old woman is to be presumed to fold TP to pressure on the turn.
^This. Also agree with Nutsornot that V most likely turned more equity and is putting H to the test otr, especially after H checked the flop.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote
09-20-2021 , 12:14 PM
Thanks, everyone. Agree folding to the 3bet was a good idea. However, I don't mind the open too much given that we are eight handed and they probably assume I'm tight.

I basically snapped him off. He looked a little surprised. I thought he had JT, QJ, maybe KJ or a diamond draw. I didn't think he'd check the flop w/ better than AJ. The turn was a heart and I thought I was beat, but I showed my hand and he mucked. In all honesty, I'm not sure I would have called if he didn't "appear" loose and make that fake on the flop.

(UTG+1 says he had AK.)

Moved to PLO soon after, so don't know how the rest of the night went at that table.
AJ on J high flop, 3 bet pre Quote

      
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