this is a board that i would actually tend to bet closer to half pot on, because it's so dry and because the range advantage we had preflop will translate pretty closely on the flop (even though i think he probably has more 9x than you here). that being said, i dont think its horrible to size closer to pot to set up a turn shove against a lot of players who are super sticky, especially those who make life really easy by only jamming 9x otf, and going call/call with everything else.

If the table is tight then we have to tighten our value range but we can loosen up our stealing range. If the table is loose we can loosen up our value range and have to tighten up the stealing range. DUCY?

Daniel,

You are making way too much logical sense with your posts here. Please don't post such good strategy in the future. You are educating the player pool too much.

Hand 1 I shove, hand 2 I prolly play the same way. I might lead out tho in hand 2

No. If the table is tight you loosen up your preflop raising range because you can steal more pre and bluff more postflop. I agree you steal more against tight tables

Against loose tables you play solid abc raise premiums and should probably not even have a stealing range.


Just think of it like this. If you were sitting on an online table and everybody is playing 5/1 vpip/pfr would the proper strategy be to play even tighter than them? No, you loosen up.

If the table is playing 50/5 you tighten up and play 5/1

75% of LLSNL villains play 50/5. LOL...

Yes i know, which is abc is most profitable, but i am pointing out a flaw in daniels logic

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

HLB, you are flat out wrong.

Just to make things simple, if there were 2 90/10 loose passive call stations limping CO/BTN, I would raise A9o for value from big blind.

On the other hand, if a 12/7 nit-reg limped UTG+1, then I would just check my option in big blind with A9o.

Lets simplify even further amd say were playing heads up.

Your heads up opponent is a nitreg 12/7
You should be opening a range of atc.

Now lets say your opponent is 90vpip. You should probably tighten your opening range from atc to say top 85% of hands

We can expand to full ring as well.
Lets say 2 super omc nits limp to us. We should be raising a very wide range. Not just A9, but arguably any ace. Our hope is to steal preflop or take it down with a cbet.

Now lets say 2 super fishy calling stations limp to us. We should be raising a tighter range, say AT+ for example. If we loosen up and raise any ace, were likely to get callers and our cbet is likely to fail.

Tight implies the player folds hands preflop. We exploit that by raising a wider range pre. Loose implies the player plays too many hands preflop. We exploit that by raising a tighter range pre.
Obviously the more limpers there are the tighter our raising range should become.

This exploitative strategy is obviously deviating from an optimal preflop raising hand range.

Ex: your cutoff hand range may be 98s+ but if the table is playing super tight you would deviate from that and raise 87s+
If the table is super loose you would deviate from that and raise Suited Broadways only.

Think about it why would you raise 87s or worse at a super loose table on the cutoff. You would want to raise suited broadways or better.

no matter what kind of table it is, there is a limit to how much you can loosen up, because there is a limit to how often you can win the pot when the board misses you.

these huge raises preflop are interesting, you get stuck heads up OOP against the strong hands that call big raises...

HLB,

You are comparing apples to oranges.

In my example, I was referring to iso-raising limpers (which is relevant to the HHs in the OP).

In your irrelevant example, you were referring to CO open-raising ranges (which is irrelevant to the HHs in the OP).

This thread is about playing AJ/ATs from the blinds against limpers. Let's focus on that instead of your hypothetical scenario which was no bearing on this thread.

The simple point is that we should be more likely to iso-raise AJ/ATs from the blinds against 90/10 drooler limpers who will call us with mostly worse hands than against 12/7 nit-reg limpers who will call us IN POSITION with mostly better hands.

Good luck trying to raise AJ/ATs OOP against tight limpers who will only call us with ranges that dominate AJ/ATs.

Just admit that you were wrong and move on...

Hand 1 pre depends on table dynamics. If any of the limpers like to limp/raise premiums or limp AQ/AK, then I would just check my option. As played flop is fine, but I would bet less on turn. Maybe 250.

Hand 2 I would not squeeze. The hand plays well multiway, even out of position. I don't think it is quite strong enough to raise for value at most tables, but it is too good to semi bluff with. I would rather squeeze with SC and call with ATs.

As played pre I would lead about half pot with most of my range with the exception of AA/TT and 9x.

If I checked with AT, it feels like a fold when this villain pots it.

Solid discussion