I tried to address this point upthread. I guess the point didn't get across as I intended. Your frequency will affect how quickly they adjust. If you sat down and 3 bet every raise ahead of you, the whole table would adjust FAST. A few would adjust optimally, a few would adjust ok, but we'll enough to hurt you, and a few would adjust poorly. But they would all adjust within a couple orbits.

So 3 betting strategy is basically finding the highest frequency they won't adjust to and readjusting if you pick up indication that someone has.

And, because profit margins are so thin, even one mistake where you 3 bet after they adjust can unhinged your 3 betting win rate for a long time. One mistake can easily change your 3 bet strategy from profitable at 2bb per hand to unprofitable for the month if you're playing full time. I think a lot of the people arguing with me lack an understanding of how fragile win rates are in marginal spots, as well as not appreciating the fact that 3 betting light is, in fact, a marginal spot. I think it makes them feel boss, and like they're dominating the table, and they don't look at the fact that what is actually boss about it is that if you do it right, you're wringing a tiny profit from hands that most of the field loses money with.

wow, this is the thread that just won't die lol

Mpethy, you've put me in a box that I won't be able to escape.

And since the talk has been taken over by much better minds than me, I will simply bow my head and back step out of the room.

Not trying to put you in a box. Not a better mind. All I am is someone who made a mistake years ago that was similar to what you ssid. I was looking at my database years ago and confused as to why my win rate in a particular situation was negative, even though my c-betting stats were indicating that my c-bet were profitable.

So I just figured out the answer years and years ago before it ever came up for you. That just makes me older, not better, lol.

Could you clarify the last sentence? Are you saying that lots of online pros call in this spot?

I just went to look on Stars. I couldn't find anyone cold-calling raises out of the SB except at 1c/2c tables, and at the play-money tables. I didn't look at every hand, of course, but online, people are playing much better and they aren't routinely cold-calling raises out of the SB.

We have a GTO sighting! Where is CMV? Paging CMV!

sure what I meant was light 3betting a wide opener in Live poker with a non-value hand (a hand that we would need lots of help otf if we flatted, even if we had his range crushed but are not willing to call him down to the river with air, but a hand still good enough that could give us some back door equity if called, even if it's an overcard or two) is the most standard way to exploit these types of players. A 3bet in llsnl is most likely to be viewed at QQ+ and sometimes AK as seen by the average player (including the "regs" which mostly suck).*

Taking over the initiative and forcing a player who has been opening wide to begin with (let's just assume our read is correct in OP's villain and we had a larger sample size) to hit a flop that he could continue with is a good proposition for us because he will have to fold most flops to a cbet. AND if he DOES continue otf, our handreading skills should be good enough to continue to narrow his range and either give up or over bet jam the river, based on certain runouts. .

The fact that this play gets so much resistance from people who advocate a fold or call, who usually play online, is a good thing for me as a player who uses this play all the time extremely profitably.


*In this example the OP has given us, the villain does not know us, so this would be the most opportunistic time to make this play. If he was one of my regular good pro villains who knows I do 3bet light, it might be better to flat against those players with the plan of playing creative post flop (never calling to play fit or fold or floating a cbet hoping he gives up), especially if I have been 3betting a lot in a session. If I don't think either option would be +EV for us because the villain is exceptionally good, I would just fold pre.