Hero picks up AA from LJ after being card dead for two hours. Table is playing mostly tight passive with a few loose passive players in the mix and one aggro donky. Almost everyone is fit or fold post with the exception of sir donksalot. V1 is UTG+1 (300$), loose passive pre but tight passive post, only bets big made hands, calls down with draws and TPTK type stuff. V2 MP (300$) on Heros right. Old guy, tight passive, fit or fold.

Couple limps, Hero makes it 15$ (250$ total). Vs call, all else fold.

Flop (50) Q J 3r

Check, V2 bets 35$, Hero raises to 100$?

Is this -EV? Is it wrong to pot commit myself? Looking back I guess I should be more weary when a fit or fold tight passive donks into pfr and another player. Is pot commit bad?


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If I'm not folding, I flat donk bets from tight passive OMCs unless I have better than one pair.

Also 'weary' means 'tired'.

I'm guessing V2 is never donking with KT or T9 here. Does he donk with KQ or AQ here? Does he bet/fold?

If I knew him well I might be able to fold, but as described I would just call.

If your read is correct, you should fold to the donk bet. I'm not sure your read is correct and I suspect it is colored by the rests.

Raising is bad against a tight/passive villain who suddenly donks on the flop. V2 type isn't donking a draw and raising just folds out the AQ/KQ hands you do beat. Unless he is super nitty and we can range him at AQ/two pair+ I'm not folding to the flop bet but I would just flat and see what happens. If he continues aggression on the turn folding is probably best.

Thanks guys. I agree flatting is best against this V. This is a big leak Im trying to patch - being card dead then waking up with a hand and not releasing.

Hero raised to 100$, V1 tanked before showing his cards to his neighbors and saying 'This is soooo nitty' and folding by slamming his cards down in the middle. (OESD KT or T9 Im sure). V2 thinks for 10 seconds and shoves, I call? (anyone folding there? ),

Turn and River come 5 J

V2 stands up and slams down QJo, V1 says 'YES great fold'.

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Some loose players donk bet a lot and it is usually a weak hand or draw (or air).

When a tight passive donk bets it is usually a strong hand. Their typical play is to l/c pocket pairs, hit a set and lead into the preflop raiser. They know players struggle to fold over pairs and TPGK. The better ones know many players will mistakenly interpret all donk bets as weak and raise when they have top pair or over pairs.

This old man isn't tight passive, he just limp/called QJo from MP. He is loose passive preflop and may or may not be tight/passive postflop. Maybe your read is accurate for his postflop play in which case you should have just called the donk bet and evaluated turn.

Maybe your read is off postflop and preflop and this villain donk bets a wide range and can call raises with a lot of weak 1-pair hands and draws. In that case your raise was good but you got unlucky and ran into the top of his range.

As always learning to read players better will help you more than any other poker skill.

What is the point of providing a read that you know is incorrect and will only bias the responses to something other than the proper advice?

^ to be fair it may have been his read before this hand. However, his conclusion seems to indicate he is holding to the read V is tight passive when clearly preflop at least he is loose passive and we don't really know what he is postflop. Not passive enough to slow play his top two pair at least...

Really doesn't matter if this OMC V2 is loose or tight. What matters is that he is passive, and here he leads into the raiser. That usually means 2-pair+, on this board protecting against straight draws and ensuring max value from over-pairs.

Once you conclude it is 2-pair+, it doesn't matter whether he has QJ or a set, when hero has one pair.

When a passive old man donks like this, a majority of the time it is 2-pair+. That is all you need to know. You can fold AA every time this happens, and the money you save when you are beat will far exceed the money you make when he has AQ or KQ.

Yah it's why I try not to lend much credence to any generic read like "loose passive," "tight passive," etc. because they are generally wrong.

Limp/calling QJo is literally the exact opposite of tight passive.

I find actual HH's trump generic anecdotal reads 100% of the time. Two hours in you should have at least one hand observation to provide us.

KKdavid - have you properly read my post?

I'm saying OP's read is inaccurate preflop in that V is not tight. I then speculate that OP's read may also be inaccurate postflop. So for all we know this old man could be loose passive preflop and loose aggro postflop.

I then went on to illustrate how hero play could be right or wrong depending on whether his read is right or wrong. For a tight passive postflop player I suggested call flop donk and evaluate turn - not a million miles from your suggestion to fold to the donk bet on the flop really.

Apologies if my original post was unclear.