$1/$2 9 man NLHE.


I have been at the table for about 45 minutes and have been playing TAG. Haven't played many hands so far as not getting any decent cards but when entering the pot always raised. Probably more on the tight side of TAG. Villain in this hand is almost a maniac, seems to be playing every hand (ATC) pre and almost always comes in with a raise. Appears to be bullying everyone. Somewhat slows down on bad flops but also C-bet bluffs a ton on "good flops". He covers me and begins this hand with $550.


I start this hand with $265 and am dealt AA in MP.
I raise to $15. All fold to Villain in BB who calls the $15.



Flop ($31): 889

Villain in BB checks. I think for a bit and bet $35/$250. Villain now raises to $100 (check raises).

Hero ?

Hero jams. If he has an eight, fine, but his range is full of pair plus draws, combo draws, repping an 8 air, etc. Calling commits anyway, so get it in now, imo.

If he is agro as you say I don't hate just calling the flop raise since you are in position. it makes it seem like u don't love ur hand. he will most likely continue on the turn then u can get it in once he has committed himself. The last thing u want to do is bet out any possible 9x hands or bluffs. It also doesn't hurt to have the A of diamonds in this spot.

Just my 2cents

^this guy pretty much nailed it... It sucks if a diamond peels the but you have one of em... And you can be pretty sure that if a diamond doesn't turn he will be bombing and then we can get it in with him committed. Of you came on here cause he had trips and you want someone to tell you that you should of gotten away... Nah **** that extract value from his range

there are too many draws and value hands that he wont get away from in his range for flatting to be the best option

raising is better because we make it more expensive for him to draw and we get value from 9x or possibly TT/JJ

Villain has enough air and hands that are drawing really thin (9x, pairs) for me to prefer flatting here to raising. Does he have any hands that call a flop jam but don't gii on the turn (either by jamming or c/c)? Some small chance he'd c/f a whiffed flush draw or open-ender ott I guess, but this Villain is more likely to jam there than c/f.

I think jamming the flop is absolutely terrible poker vs this villain type. Call the raise and keep calling until all the money is in. That's how you print the most money vs someone who is "almost a manic.....[who] appears to be bullying everyone". Play meekly, let him have the initiative, keep giving him false hope that he can bully his way out of this hand with his air range.

As I said in your other thread whenever you're committed--and in this hand you certainly ARE committed even at an spr of 8 vs THIS guy--your goal then should be to play the hand in such a way that keeps the villain's range as wide as possible when all the money goes in (That's how you maximize $$). It really is that simple. Calling the flop raise and letting the villain put you all-in on the turn accomplishes that goal.

All the money is going in against this range regardless of whether we jam the flop or call the flop and let villain inevitably put us all in on the turn.

Again, all the money is going in against that range too regardless of whether we jam the flop or call the flop and let villain put us all in on the turn.

And this is precisely why we are better off just calling the flop, because this strategy gets the added benefit of keeping villain's air range in.

Thanks for the comments.

I ended up just calling.

Turn ($231) : 8896

Villain snaps all-in.

Hero ?

NH.

Sometimes the better man wins no matter how well you play.

Thanks @ILOVEPOKER929

One thing you could try is to setup an SPR where your happy stacking off postflop. A raise to $15 probably isn't going to do that. So you have 3 options. One, raise more preflop, so to like $25, but that might be simply too big a raise to get any action at your table. Two, you could attempt a limp/raise, which might not be a bad play with this maniac in the BB who might raise to go after all the limped dead money. Three, you can decide simply not to play for stacks, raise like you did, and then pot control postflop.

In the end, it looks like we're in the 3rd option. I'm not really comfortable stacking off with SPR = ~8+, so my plan would be to pot control postflop. Against a lotta players, that would be a bet/check/bet line. But against this aggro monkey, I'm checking back the flop. If he check/raises the flop (something he'll probably do quite a lot, right?), we're put in a tough spot where we are now playing for stacks (something we probably don't want to do). So, instead, check back the first street and then let aggro guy take this sign of weakness as an opportunity to bluff and bluffcatch (or value bet) the next two streets.

As played, we're in a really tough spot. Board is very drawy, so it's possible he's semi-bluffing with a hand that has quite a lot of equity. It's also possible he's simply crushing us and expecting us to never fold due to his aggro image + our obvious big hand.

ETA: I don't think I'm as comfortable as everyone else committing 132bbs with just one pair here, although I guess this really depends on how maniac the villain is. I would agree that if we're comfortable with playing for stacks here against a maniac that the best method is too usually just call it off so we don't raise him off his air and allow him to continue his bullying tactics.

Gplanthehandtoattempttoavoidtoughspots,imoG

perfect

I do like gobb... analysis too about checking back the flop here

Shove flop. If he has 8x and called a $15 raise then he gets all your money. 99 isn't going to raise flop that often. So that leaves Overpairs and combo draws, none of which he's folding after that raise. Why let him give up on a bad turn card?

Semi grunch: I prefer the flop flat on 885r...here raising seems like a better option imo... He has so many draws than pure air on this flop

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Maniacs are barrelling bad turn cards trying to rep it, imo.

ETA: Although, this board really is very drawy and it's possible he's on that draw. My guess is there's not a great difference between calling vs raising in this spot vs this guy?

I mean if we are going to the river anyway, committed to the pot on the flop in our minds, why would we want to shut out his pure bluffs when they are never ever folding any of their value range or combo draws, but snap folding air?

this is a no brainer. fist pump shove, garicks post +1, calling has it's merit too but this boards a little wet so get it in and charge draws. He's got roughly half of the effective stack in there so yea.

Jam once villain raises to 100.

Your hand is not strong enough to play slowly. Villains range is wide so folding would be very weak.

Some truly aggressive villains at these stakes will over value their hands and playing ability particularly against tight players who they think they can get to make an incorrect fold. What did you think your c-bet would accomplish? Did you want to just take the pot right there with the nut over-pair or did you think he'd just check call you three streets with a second best hand? You lost the ability to pot control by your c-bet against this player. If your c-bet caused him to fold then you didn't allow him the chance to open his betting and calling range on later streets and so earn your AA holding more value and if you weren't comfortable playing for stacks in this situation (spr is a little too high) then perhaps checking the flop is a possible solution to this problem. In that by checking you allow him to open up on the turn or river or play control.

Would this player actually check raise a fh or quads on the flop against a tight player? Would this player actually check raise trips on this board against a tight player or unknown? Is this player aggressive and thinking and if so is he capable of reading you for a thinking player with a strong holding and so is leveling you with his check raise and he does have a big hand? Would he read your call of his check raise as a big over-pair and then play optimally against you on the turn and river? Will he actually call your 3-bet shove with a diamond draw, open ended straight draw, 9x or a now marginal pocket pair? If you shove is he only calling when your way behind? If you call then what turn cards are favorable to call his turn lead (stack is committed with flop call)? Are you calling diamond or 6 or J or 9 turn cards? Are you ever calling the flop and folding the turn?

You're in a wa/wb situation with position against a loose aggressive opponent who'll not let you pot control. There aren't many turn cards that will improve your perceived situation or your actual situation, folding to this player with your hand and that board seems too weak and your spr is really too high to stack off with top pair but calling leaves you committed, if you intend to get to showdown, on the turn in the same spot or potentially worse. If you intend to go to showdown then calling keeps his weaker hands in play and because he'll never fold a big made hand shoving might eliminate some value for you that he'd fold to your action. This hand is a good example of trying to think about our actions and opponents reactions and so might inspire us take a little time before acting and perhaps at times choose non standard lines.

I'd call flop against such an aggro villain - let him keep firing at your with his entire range, and generally don't fold. Calling the flop keeps every hand in his range, including his really airy hands. Given stack sizes, you can probably expect him to shove the turn with his entire range.

Saw your second post, and you should definitely call his shove.

You should probably call his turn shove no matter the run-out. He's super aggro, and even a card like Kd, which completes all possible draws, gives you the nut flush re-draw, so that's 20% equity. A turn shove should give you close to 4:1. So yeah, this hands pretty much plays itself.

Calling the flop is MUCH better against this villain. Shoving the flop keeps him in the hand with strong hands (hands that beat us or have a ton of equity against us). Some % of his hands have very little equity and fold to a flop shove. A flop shove isolates you against the very hands you don't want to face.

OP, I saw the results. Nice hand.

The exact hand villain had is one of the many hands where it doesn't really matter whether you shoved flop or called and got it all in on the turn. The outcome would have been exactly the same. The fact that stacks have gotten so small and that you have the Ad re-draw on the turn really makes this hand play itself.

The way to decide whether to shove or call flop is to look at villain's entire range - decide what he does differently with which parts of his range depending on whether you call or shove flop.

Again, for the exact hand he had, this hand would not have been any different. For his very strong made hands, the outcome would have been the same, as well. For his other types of draws, he's probably staying around, too.

The only thing a flop shove would really CHANGE in the hand is that villain might fold weaker hands (spaz 9x, air, lower pocket pairs, etc) to your shove.

This hand would get more interesting if you didn't have the Ad re-draw, you called the flop, the turn was the Kd, and villain shoved. Would that card and maybe a few others ever compel a turn fold from us? Obviously we're calling flop with the plan to call turn almost always... but is there a turn card that changes our plan when we don't have Ad?

calling here is best in the rare chance he is bluffing - Shoving is also fine with calling being slightly better - but still not a major mistake.

As long as you don't fold you did good.

Shove.

Did anybody limp in EP before you? If so, I would consider limping AA (if V is as maniacal as you say) and trap some dead money in EP with a large 3b pre. Then shove any flop if called. When playing against a pre-flop maniac (especially one who moves down 2 notches from maniac to merely tricky post-flop), his biggest mistakes are pre-flop, so punish him there as much as possible.