Hero is dealt A A

Young villain opens from UTG to 30. I 3bet 3 off btn to 110, he calls. He seems solid thus far, maybe an internet kid. My image is TAG/internet kid.

Flop: K 8 6
He check calls 130

Turn: J
He donks 275, Hero calls

River: 2
He jams for 1.1k Hero???

his sizing on river for value is pretty lol unless you two have some crazy history together. id probably whine and needle him a bit before tossing the chips in unless while doing so i pick up something off him.

What are the stack sizes? I call the river.

In the games I play I like raising the turn in spots like this. At these levels, check call then donking turn is almost always some type of hand that had only a draw on the flop or a marginal made hand and the turn gives them more outs. So either now they have a pair with whatever draw they had on the flop vice versa or it added a straight draw, etc.

Fold. Seems pretty obvious he flopped a flush.

it's only a PSB river bet.

220+260+550 = 1k

okay a PSB bet is huge for a live game. Maybe he doesn't like betting 600 and decides to just jam, which would be reasonable.

ya but what does he expect you to call him w/?

i think his river bet size is a mistake because it drastically narrows his range, allowing you to make the best decision.

lol what flushes can he have

Prolly not much difference between AA and 87 here...

I'd fold turn.

explain a little more. How does his range change if he bets 600 vs 1.1k? Why do you think it becomes drastically more narrow?

If he's a thinking player, he probably knows your range for 3 betting an UTG open is very tight. he may flat or fold only here and never 4 bet if he's relatively deep. (More than 110-120bbs)

That makes his flatting range very narrow to AK, KK, QQ, maybe JJ.

When the K of spades flops, he can rule out you having flopped a flush.

So, when he donks the turn and you don't raise, he can be pretty confident you're not insanely strong, so he can confidently jam his set of KK or JJ, for value, and he has the added bonus of his line looking a bit like he may have missed a FD. But that's probably stretching it a bit.

Obviously, KK is less likely, because he's probably looking to get stacks in on the flop, but you never know, he may have feared the A of spades and played in carefully.

Again, that's not very likely if hes a solid thinking player. Most of my analysis depends on that assumption.

what does your hand look like to him? when i say drastically narrows his range i dont mean nuts or nothing. i wouldnt be surprised if he has AK here just trying to get it in w/ what he thinks is the best/chopping (and therefore freerolling) hand.

I expect him to show AQs and JJ most of the time in this spot. I fold turn probably, not enough of a read to continue.

i'd fold. last time I took a check/call, donk, shove line on a wettish board it was for value and I stacked an overpair for 150+bb.

villain has to be good and kind of a sicko to take this line (so that you can't pot control) as a bluff to blow you off your hand.

I really think he is nutsed
As people said it before me (and i thought that before reading posts) when someone check calls then donk donk a monotone board like this he is really strong.
Only thing that sucks is you don't have the Ace of spades, so there is a slim change he took that line with a AsX but i still think it's a fold
But yeah i don't know what As Xnotspade he could call a 3bet with preflop and donk turn without a flush (would be more than weird seeing him call a 3bet with AJo, taking this line with AKo would be weird since he would have sd value after the flop and wouldn't need to turn his top pair into a bluff)

^ his value range is not just flushes.

I don't know if I can fold turn, maybe it's best but I don't think I'd fold turn in real time, I'd fold river tho.

Yeah I think his value range is AK, sets, and flushes. I agree with FrenchDonkey that it doesn't really make sense that for him to have a naked A spades.

So do we all agree that it's just some guy taking a weird line for value? The only hand that makes sense is JJ.

Cstevens, I think his sizing is bigger than normal, but I'm not sure how it changes his range without any reads. Some make bigger sizing to increase FE, some wouldn't do it without the nuts.

kind of hard to imagine AK being in his value range when he goes from 275 OTT to 1.1k OTR. (thats just such a huge bet in live poker)

the reason why he would lead turn w/ AK is because he obv isnt folding and he figures rakes will check back everything that he beats that has tons of equity vs him.

on turn when rakes just calls, villain knows he doesnt have JJ/KK unless hes terrible so on that river hes obv going to shove figuring hes on a freeroll.

This is such an unusual line especially from a good player and I don't know what to think of it. My first though was that he has KJ or JJ. Not sure what bluffs he plays this way. I also discount flushes since c/r flop or turn seems like a better way for villain to get value.

Kind of weird since if he's capable of donking turn at all it'd make more sense for him to just lead three times with a flush to prevent us from checking back a street. Value range seems a lot like either a hand that smacked the turn or something semi-vulnerable like KK/88 that wanted to peel a safe turn first.

That said he can't really expect you to fold too often when he takes this line, so roll your eyes and fold river.

[QUOTE=rakes;32878061So do we all agree that it's just some guy taking a weird line for value? The only hand that makes sense is JJ.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, but I don't think it's that weird.

yea same

Fold.

Sounds like we don't know a real lot about villain.

Preflop, he's calling 80 to win ~1600 so he could be wide here, even OOP. So we have to include 88/66 in his range. I don't see KK or he'd 4bet. He could also have 2 spades/tho unlikely.

Flop: if he had non-nut flush here he'd lead out or crai, if he had lone Aspades maybe also. He would know you'ld shut down big if spade hit turn.

On the turn, his donk bet was key/it was a great bet. The size is a bit small if he has a set or even if he flatted flop w/small flush. We could raise to define his hand but that would pretty much commit us. A big raise commits us and he's rarely folding the best hand here. A minraise would still give us control of the betting but give him odds to continue with worse.

River, he makes another great bet.

Overall, I prob play this as you did (and fold river). Sometimes villains play well, even OOP/LOL. It was a tough board for AA. On a technical basis we played OK/our only option was to raise turn. The only way to have things play out better in future with hands like this is to know our villains better.