Villain - a reg at my local casino. I know his face but I have not played much with him before. The player to give a hand analysis after each hand at a 1/3 table. You know the type.

OTH......

Hero UTG +2 - AA opens $15.00

V1 - MP calls $15.00

V2 - BTN calls $15.00

V3 - SB calls $15.00 ($400.00 effective)

V4 - BB calls $15.00

Pot = $75.00

Flop - 8 3 2

I believe this is a standard c bet spot IMO

V3 & V4 both check to hero

Hero - c bets $45.00

folds to V3

V3 - XR $100.00

V4 folds

Back to Hero - Hero calls $100.00

Turn - 3

V3 - bets $125.00

Hero - calls $125.00

River - 5

V3 - goes all in roughly $150.00 remaining

Pot = roughly $575.00

Getting 3.5-1 - villain is not repping much besides flop sets or 32 suited (which there only are 2 combos). The 3 on the turn eliminates other 33 set combos. We have the A which eliminates flush draw combos. He is not repping much but imo is a under bluffed spot at 1/3.

Thoughts ????

Feels like a weird size to raise. It kinda sucks that you got the Ad, to block a significant amount of his flush draws. Eventhough in mind my most people would'nt c/raise those given the flop is 5way. Since it's 5way and you did'nt indicate SB might spew around I'm willing to lay it down on the flop right away and suppose a set most of the time. If he is capable of bluffing this, I'd c/r the turn AP to get max value from FDs. If you just call the turn you are priced in on any non flush rivers, even if it's unlikely most people would continue bluffs for this SPR.

The time to let go of this hand is on the turn. At 1/3, you aren't going to be good often enough to pay this off.

Noob perspective:

Feels like he's boiling the frog here -- giving you a great price to call on every street but still getting his whole stack in by the river.

What do you beat here?
1) Him badly over-valuing a lower overpair that somehow didn't 3-bet pre (JJ?)
2) Missed FD (e.g. KQdd) that somehow never bet enough to generate significant fold equity

You lose to 88 (3 combos), 22 (3 combos), 33 (1 combo). He's probably not getting to the river with A3, A4, 55, so forget those.

But still, even with the few hands you're losing to and at the odds you're getting, I don't think there are enough worse value hands or enough bluffs that you can be good here often enough.

Sometimes you have to just call and lose. Would prefer not to have the Ad but you can’t fold the River here.

I think the hand is played well throughout. There are Turns you can fold, but not that one. You just need to call down after that.

I can't stand the preflop result (very multiway, OOP, and small SPR which sets up commitment spots immediately and yet offered the world insanely great IO of 30+:1). So if this result is expected/standard (which it is in my game) I would limp in.

I'm either/or on the flop. We're obviously never bluffing when we bet into eleventeen opponents, so our hand is face up on the table as either an overpair or at worse overs + flush draw. So I'm not in love with turning our hand face up by betting. But the board does contain draws which we're fine with getting value from / protecting our equity against. FWIW, anyone with half a brain can basically play fairly perfectly against us in this spot, which is why I go out of my way to avoid this spot preflop. But that's me.

As played, I make a nitty fold to the check/raise. Wouldn't he check/raise a lot larger on a semi-bluff to increase FE? We also block a lot of the big semi-bluffs he can have with our nut flush A. He also still has V4 behind him who could be sandbagging. And, as I say, our hand is pretty face up on the table; I mean, wut, we think he's doing this with 99?

I don't get to the turn and don't call it if I get there.

And I fold the river.

Stacking off in eleventeen way pots with face up hands giving our opponents insane preflop odds is really bad, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I should add that--while Villain played this fine (assuming he called the River)--when I've been in this spot at Live Games (raise UTG with AA, get a 4+ callers and catch a flop like this)--I've been check-raising, unless the better is deep-stacked. Act like I missed, let someone bet half the pot, let someone else call, and then hit the huge raise to commit myself. I'm fine going broke against a set here, so I'm just focused on going broke *the right way*. And I think the big check-raise is the best way to do it.

After calling turn i am always calling this river.

I'm for the fold on the turn. The villain has all sets in his range and we block his bluffs (nuts FD, nuts bdfd).

I'd call the turn if I had reads that Villain could play his overpairs this way, but there aren't that many of these hands in Villain's range (99-TT).

Check raises at 1/3 tables are better than aces every single time in my experience.

Unless I’m playing with competent players, it’s a fold either on the flop or turn.

I would have played it like you did. The min check raise on the flop doesn't feel like a set. I would think a set would either lead the flop, c/r bigger, or slow play until a later street. Who min raises a set multiway on a board this wet?
With the callers in front of him pre-flop, he's getting odds to widen his range quite a bit. I would expect a ton of diamond draws (KQs, JTs) and even some 54s (non-diamonds) to play the hand this way. 99-KK are all overpairs to the board, too. At these stakes, JJ looks like the nuts to some villains on this board. AA is so rare and villains discount it.

Not knowing much about your table image here but I'm assuming a Cbet is probably standard for you. This hand screams flopped set. I'm probably laying this down as soon as I get check raised. Even if we improve on the turn we are put in a difficult spot with a tough decision. Likely drawing against a made hand with one card to come. I say just muck it.

We can't fold everytime we get checkraised on the flop. With backdoor FD and wheel and with a decent price in position, I'd call and play a turn.

Villain continues the story on the turn, but now 33 is discounted. Tough to fold there, but depending on read, could let it go.
We might use some of their "hand analysis" to put a range.

If you fold every time you have an overpair at 1/2 and 1/3, I promise that you'll save money in the long run. Most* low-stakes players don't check-raise without a hand that isn't either beating aces currently, or has a reasonable chance of doing so in the next two cards.

*I acknowledge that this is anecdotal evidence, but I have been playing poker for a long time and I have a lot of anecdotes at this point.

Hero calls the all in on the river.......

Wow, Vs holding is insane with this line. Not sure he is a Reg, though. Did he explain his "reasoning" to you? Since you mentioned he's usually talkative.

Villain is probably a whale

He mentioned that he knew I was a thinking player, capable of folding an over pair.

He saw 1 hand previous hand to this hand, where another player had 3 bet my cbet oop in a 3 bet pot and I folded.

Maybe he assumed I was overly aggressive, I am not sure.

To his credit, I did almost fold.

His line makes extremely little sense as a bluff, which I suppose would have made it a good bluff if he ever bet big enough to get you to fold. Which he didn't.

Do you fold turn if he rips it?

I prefer checking this flop 5ways, i think it´s easier to navigate through the hand especially with the Ad+ i think big delayed turn and river bets will get called down a lot since they don´t give you credit for checking a strong hand on the flop. Also you will generate some EV from them stabbing the turn as a bluff or hitting top pair on the turn and overvalueing it etc. against most players in the live low stakes games i play i would definitely call the small raise as played, i don´t expect them to have any random bluffs here but they could just be overplaying their 99+ or have some kind of flushdraw on rare occasions. on the turn when he bets 125$ and has 150$ left i am just raising all in, if he has a full so be it but i am sure if he happens to have some kind of a flushdraw or 99+ he will not be able to make the fold for 150$ more. calling the bet and him check/folding on a Q/J/K/A/diamond or calling his all in on a diamond are not great. also people tend to shut down the action when improving to full house or better which makes him having you beat even less likely. i mean we all know they have a hard time value betting or even raising their super nuts.

I think at the lowest live stakes, in whatever range you're constructing for your opponent there usually needs to be a significant segment reserved for "WTF holdings" because these players are going to show up with something way off the beaten path far too often. I would not have been surprised at all to see a 1/3 opponent show up with K8s in a spot like this.

I'm definitely not folding on any street and I feel like it might be best to raise the turn to make sure his remaining $160 doesn't slip out of your fingers should he miss a draw or some card comes that scares his made hand.

I play the same as the OP AP, but if the opponent rips in the turn I would fold.

But I agree with others, if you call the turn you basically have to call the river.

i dont understand this. are you saying the best way to play NLHE is to play 50 bb stacks and then leave once you double up leave the table?

i find this hard to be believe to be true given that no great NLHE players that I know of play this way. does dwan play 50 bb stacks? ivey? garrett adelstein? andy from LATB?

or maybe you think only good players should play deep stacked. well how can you learn to play deep stacked if you never play deep stacked? i guarantee you good players started out losing playing deep stacked until they got experience. they didnt run away from playing deep stacked as you always seem to advocate.

with your IO comment you are basically saying that if you have any overpair you are committing your stack no matter what, so you should never have a deep stack. that is absurd.

or maybe you are you saying that you suck at deep stack, you will always suck at deep stack, and therefore you should never take off your bicycle training wheels.

-edit: wait, werent you the guy who played 1000 hours of 2/4 limit hold em even though there was a 4/8 game in your poker room?

OP - i would probably check the flop with this many players in on a dynamic board like this.

nice call, but i think in the long run your calldown is a losing play vs. most players.

i think your hands plays easier if you start it on the turn in a smaller pot.

ps - limping in pre is ok if there has been a lot of PF raising. if not i think its a mistake.