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AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED

02-18-2015 , 11:21 AM
Hero: (~140) on BU, 20s, youngest person at this table by far, playing super nitty cause theres 2 stacks of over 1k straddling every hand, then reraising pre from 25-45. I've only played 2-3 hands at the table in around 30-45 mins, and one of the hands was with V1 when I was in the BB, 2 limpers and it was checked all the way down, so not much info there. But V1 has been talking since he sat at the table (10 mins ago) about previous hands, he's definitely a reg at this casino

V1: (~120) on HJ, 35ish, seems to know what hands to chase and how to beat these casino 1/2 NL games pretty consistently, winning player image, knows how to adjust to the LAG table and gamble it up

V2: (~400) on CO, 40ish, TAG, very patient, has only had 2 showdowns both in his favor. Reg, but not as dedicated, I saw him make a very good fold earlier

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Pre, V1 and V2 are only limpers (very strange since most hands theres 4-5 people in the pot regardless) so I make a small raise to 10 which gets called by both.

Flop, 5h-7d-10c

V1 and V2 check, I check too cause theres no straight or flush draws, so I figure I'm either way ahead or way behind, with these guys appearing so weak (limp-call, check flop) I don't want to blow them out of the pot and lose money with pocket rockets

Turn, 6s

V1 bets 30, V2 thinks and folds, I shove for around 100 over the raise, he snap calls

-----

Am I beat here always after his 30$ raise? As I played this hand, I thought I was honestly in a great position and with the best hand. I knew V1 would be wanting to take the pot down so I was willing to wait until the river to raise his bluff-bet. I posted the spoiler because I'm always curious about results when reading these posts. Input would be very appreciated!!


Spoiler:
After he snap calls, he turns over A-10 as if they were the nuts, I leave my cards where they are until the hand is over, but then the dealer turns a 10 in the river and I mucked in disgust, speed-walk my ass the **** out on super-tilt.
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzT4M4Y0theGOAT
Pre, V1 and V2 are only limpers (very strange since most hands theres 4-5 people in the pot regardless) so I make a small raise to 10 which gets called by both.

Flop, 5h-7d-10c

V1 and V2 check, I check too cause theres no straight or flush draws, so I figure I'm either way ahead or way behind, with these guys appearing so weak (limp-call, check flop) I don't want to blow them out of the pot and lose money with pocket rockets

Turn, 6s
Yah ... there are no straight draws except for the blatant 98 that would have gotten there on the turn with an OESD or 86 and 64 that had an OESD on the flop. You need to do a better job of looking out for straight draws. This is why people get paid with straights.

You should never check this flop 3 handed. Bet for value. If no one has anything worth calling with than you aren't making any money on the turn but you are giving two people free cards to crack your precious AAs. Terrible check on flop.
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 12:35 PM
Grunch.

If the table has been happy to call raises up to $45... why in the world are you raising to $10? After two people limp, I would be making it $15 absolute minimum. The small raise size was your first mistake As played to the flop... You say there aren't any straight draws, but any card between J and 4 that doesn't pair the board can complete a possible straight. So this isn't even a WA/WB scenario.

Let's just pretend for a second that it is a WA/WB scenario... What makes you think that you should check just for that reason? Checking in a WA/WB scenario should be reserved for situations where we have a medium strength hand that we don't necessarily want to commit our whole stack with. That isn't the case here. We have AA with a SPR (stack to pot ratio) around 3. We want all the money going into this pot ASAP. Checking the flop was your second mistake.

As played OTT, raising is fine. Again... with a SPR of around 3, just get the money in. Getting rid of this fancy tricky nonsense will serve you well in the future. In time you will learn not to balance your "weak checks" with "strong checks" as you did here, but rather balance your "strong bet" with "weak bets". To reiterate, at LLSNL, almost never check strong hands. Instead, find spots to balance your bet's with bluffs/semi-bluffs.
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Yah ... there are no straight draws except for the blatant 98 that would have gotten there on the turn with an OESD or 86 and 64 that had an OESD on the flop. You need to do a better job of looking out for straight draws. This is why people get paid with straights.

You should never check this flop 3 handed. Bet for value. If no one has anything worth calling with than you aren't making any money on the turn but you are giving two people free cards to crack your precious AAs. Terrible check on flop.
Yeah theres 68, 64, 89, you're right, guess I was focused on flush

I should've bet flop, you're right, and I paused for about 30secs to think during the hand but ended up checking.. Maybe I was scared of the reraise-shove since the table was so aggro? But I would've shoved with no problem on flop so idk.. Yeah it was a bad check,
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 12:36 PM
Oh and you also mention that you wanted to raise someone's bluff bet... think about that. If he is bluffing, there isn't probably isn't much value in raising, because he won't call.
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaNEWPr0fess0r
Grunch.

If the table has been happy to call raises up to $45... why in the world are you raising to $10? After two people limp, I would be making it $15 absolute minimum. The small raise size was your first mistake As played to the flop... You say there aren't any straight draws, but any card between J and 4 that doesn't pair the board can complete a possible straight. So this isn't even a WA/WB scenario.

Yeah, I should've made it 15-20$ pre, honestly I think it was 5-7-10 but it could've been 5-8-10, or 4-7-10, regardless theres draws to straights. And with my small bet pre, they could easily have one of those suited connecters

Let's just pretend for a second that it is a WA/WB scenario... What makes you think that you should check just for that reason? Checking in a WA/WB scenario should be reserved for situations where we have a medium strength hand that we don't necessarily want to commit our whole stack with. That isn't the case here. We have AA with a SPR (stack to pot ratio) around 3. We want all the money going into this pot ASAP. Checking the flop was your second mistake.

Yeah I'm realizing the definite mistake. Even if they both fold out, I'm risking the turn by giving them a chance at two-pairs and straights a lot of the time.V1 would've called 30$, and V2 probably folds, and turn maybe V1 checks, I bet pot and he folds TPTK? Idk, he played that hand like the absolute nuts vs me being weak-passive

As played OTT, raising is fine. Again... with a SPR of around 3, just get the money in. Getting rid of this fancy tricky nonsense will serve you well in the future. In time you will learn not to balance your "weak checks" with "strong checks" as you did here, but rather balance your "strong bet" with "weak bets". To reiterate, at LLSNL, almost never check strong hands. Instead, find spots to balance your bet's with bluffs/semi-bluffs.

Thanks for this bit of advice right here, thats great stuff and I'll be working on that next time

Something I observed at this table was that the regs come into the table buying in for 100 and play really loose aggressive. I came into the table buying into the max, 300, but there were people there with 1k+ so my max-BI was easily being dominated and I had to play tighter than I could've.

Is there something to be said about the 100$ BI method? Looking for 3-4 hands and shoving flop/turn a lot to take down pots, playing almost like a tournament method...?
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 01:23 PM
Top off stack to max buy in. Bet more at every possible chance. Profit.
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 01:33 PM
^

checking flop is just no
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 01:47 PM
People at 1/2 call with way worse all the time. With aces there you should bet that flop100% of the time. There are a lot of people who will call with over cards, gut shots, top/middle/bottom pair, worse pocket pairs, ect.

The way the hand played out, he was probably calling you anyways. Neither of you were deep enough to get him off TPTK, and you just got unlucky. It happens, move on to the next hand.

Last edited by Pyrochaos; 02-18-2015 at 01:53 PM.
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 01:57 PM
Honestly, I think I dislike every element of this hand. You shot the moon, man.

-Top off your stack. You're going to play nitty and wait for a good spot against wild aggressors. That's a fine strategy. But in that case you really want to get paid in full when your cards finally come.

-Bet more than $10 preflop. Where are those $1000 loose-aggressors at your table? Did they decide to sit out this hand? Either way, the rest of the table is used to calling 25 preflop. You can make it $15-20 and get exactly the same callers you would for $10. Both your limpers were prepared to call a raise when they limped.

-Checking this flop is smacking yourself in the face and forgetting to take your rings off first. Your hand is the opposite of WA/WB. The classic example of WA/WB is Kings on a A-9-4r board. If opponents don't have an ace, they're folding to your bet. If they do, you're drawing to only two outs. On this board, there are the straight outs, but there are also plenty of 5-outers (one pair hoping to improve to trips or two pair). Even if you took the straight outs away -- let's say the board is 2-6-10r instead -- you should still be betting this flop. You're looking to get called by pocket pairs and 10x's. Stacks aren't going to magically go into the center unless (a) you bet or (b) opponents improve.

-On the turn, meh. Shoving here is fine I guess, since you so massively underrepped your hand on the flop. You're going to fold out nearly everything that you can beat though. The only hands you can beat that likely call here are TPTK (and TPTK would've been just as likely to call your flop and turn bets anyway) and 10-8 (which now has a ton of outs).
AA on button, 1/2NL, DREAMS CRUSHED Quote
02-18-2015 , 02:01 PM
Note: I think we should top off to 100bb so we can capitalize on the large preflop raises. Say we have QQ and the pre-flop raise is $25, then we can 3B to $80; then say we can can easily shove our $140 into the pot of, let's say $175 on any flop.

I think your read on V1 is likely incorrect. Given your read, he really shouldn't be sitting on a half stack.

PF: Uh...what hand do we have? Oh, title has us with AA...OK! Raise is too low. These guys obviously have some gamble in them, so we should be raising much more to get a more favorable SPR. With two limpers, I'd raise to $15 here. Assuming both call, we've got $45 in the pot and an SPR of about 3.

F: Pot is $33. SPR is 4.2 for your stack and just a bit lower for V1. SPR is fine to stack off with AA here. Checking here is bad. We need to start building the pot. 89 has an open ender. 68 has an open ender. We're not blowing anyone out of the pot if we bet. We have to be for value here because we want to get our stack in the middle. If we bet pot and get one caller the pot is $99 and we'll have $97 left; enough for a pot size bet on the turn. I would rather bet less on the flop, so that is why we raise more pre considering our stack size. As played, we check.

T: Right now we should know that we have under repped our hand. V1 bets pot and then we shove our $130 for over a pot sized shove; now that's blowing someone out of the water. Well, we haven't played this hand well from the beginning, so now that we're at the turn, we have a tough decision. Should we just call or should we raise? We can't fold. I would say we're still committed and just called the turn bet and got the rest of my stack in on the river.

Notes: I would read up on how to effectively manage stack sizes and understanding commitment thresholds. Also, don't be one of those people that is pessimistic about AA. This should of been a pretty straight forward easy to play hand.

Edit:
After reading the spoiler, you also need to learn how to manage tilt. There is absolutely no reason to be on super-tilt with this hand. You only lost 70bb; that is not a big deal. Kind of sounds like you are playing with scared money.

Last edited by Below Zero; 02-18-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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