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AA on 872 flop AA on 872 flop

01-02-2024 , 03:01 PM
1/2. Villain in this hand just sat down, brought a rack with chips from the cage but I don't think it was a full $200 which is the typical buy in. He is an older gent, if that read is worth anything. Effective stacks, iirc, about $160-170.

Hero raises A A to $10 utg.
Only BB (villain) calls.

Flop 872 ($18)
Villain donks for $10 and hero calls.

Turn 6 ($34)
Villain checks, hero bets $20, villain fairly quickly raises to $120, which was not an all-in. Hero folds
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 03:37 PM
It was fine, I would probably raise the flop since we have position then the option to check back the turn or river. As played he's def got us beat.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 03:38 PM
I wouldn't fold post flop at 80bb starting stacks.

He has stuff like 56 or 6x of hearts or a smaller over pair more often that will play this way more than a set or two pair.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 03:46 PM
Yeah I would just raise flop really big to commit myself either way. Probably just make it like 80.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Yeah I would just raise flop really big to commit myself either way. Probably just make it like 80.
No way. When villain donks this flop, hero is very unlikely to be a favorite.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 05:20 PM
I was thinking a smaller raise on the flop might be better, an amount that 8x or 99 would feel comfortable calling.

But it could get us in the same spot as the turn if he had bet flop planning to 3bet, and then how would you feel? 15 years ago spr 8 is a comfy stack off with AA, but these days not so much
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 06:15 PM
Depending on the board texture, donk leads are usually weak top pair hands (usually some Broadway card) trying to "see where I'm at", a V trying to set his own price to chase a draw, or something that smashed the flop pretty hard, but needs some protection.

Doubtful V would be donk-leading the flop and then going for a 6x check-raise on the turn with just top-pair or a flush draw. This is going to be at least 2P, if not a set or a turned straight with T9.

Whenever I have a hand that beats top pair, and an opponent donks into me on the flop, I'll typically raise, just on principle. Here, with these shallow stack depths, and against a player who might be an OMC, I think you could probably min-raise flop to $20, to see what he does, and to take back the betting lead.

Or, you could just make it $30, and fold to a 3B, or check-back if he checks to you on the turn. Raising to $30 on the flop isn't much different than calling the $10 donk, betting $20, and folding to the x/r.

The only advantage I see in flat-calling flop is that we might spike another A on the turn, or V might slow down and check a brick, but without the A of hearts in our hand, we're hoping to hit one clean out, and even if he does check a brick, we need to be concerned about V going for a x/r, as he did here.

So, raise flop. But as played, trivial fold on turn.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
No way. When villain donks this flop, hero is very unlikely to be a favorite.
Why? Most donks are top pairs and draws.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Why? Most donks are top pairs and draws.
+1
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adonson
+1
-1

Donk bets are not always top pairs or draws, it depends on the player who made them 100%. Sometimes they can be medium stregnth hands or draws, while others (especially if an OMC donks out on a two tone flop) they can be monsters trying to protect their hand from getting countered, with everything in between.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-02-2024 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Why? Most donks are top pairs and draws.
If, for example, the other guy has a straight and flush draw, hero is not a favorite.

If hero is a favorite over villain's donk range here, it's likely not a large one, and it would be better to put in more money after a blank turn card.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-03-2024 , 04:09 AM
its fine imo.

Flop I dont like raising. Board does not interact with our UTG raising range at all, might as well play our hand face up. Villains who donk "to see where they are at" have an easy fold, villains who donk because they read in SuperSystem 20 years ago that you are supposed to do that with sets and big draws will just make our live miserable. Raising also takes away our positional advantage. Villain does have a range advantage on that board, defending his BB vs UTG open. Whether or not intentionally, he played his hand somewhat correctly. We have to accept that.

OTT it should be a c/behind imo, for all the reasons mentioned above. He´s got a pretty big range advantage on that board. Time to c/b imo, if you want to bet as an exploit which is probably fine against 90% of population you have to know what to do against a raise. I´m not sure, thats why I would check, but leaning towards fold as played.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-03-2024 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauhund
OTT it should be a c/behind imo, for all the reasons mentioned above. He´s got a pretty big range advantage on that board.
I tried one of those solvers and it also said check back the turn. I think that makes sense, as frustrating as it is to put so little in the pot with aces.

No results to add, I folded and he did not show. Didn't observe unusual aggression or any spazzy moves in the rest of the session so he probably had me smoked.
AA on 872 flop Quote
01-03-2024 , 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Means
I tried one of those solvers and it also said check back the turn. I think that makes sense, as frustrating as it is to put so little in the pot with aces.

No results to add, I folded and he did not show. Didn't observe unusual aggression or any spazzy moves in the rest of the session so he probably had me smoked.
You almost certainly made a good fold. It would be nice to have a reveal, but only to know HOW you were beat, not necessarily to know IF you were beat.
AA on 872 flop Quote

      
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