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AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas

03-18-2011 , 06:34 PM
Hero has about $450 after a buyin of $300. Very passive table preflop with lots of limp. I have raised preflop significantly more than any other player during the 2 hours I've been at the table.

Villain #1 (~$300) is to my left and has played extremely tight. I've raised preflop from the cutoff on a few occasions and he has seemed a little frustrated by that. Villain #2 (~$300) just sat down, but was an unfriendly woman who didn't seem like she played a lot.

Preflop: 4 limpers (3 middle position and cutoff). Hero on button with AA. Hero raises to $21. Small blind (Villain #1) calls along with one of the limpers (Villain #2).

Pot: $72 - $4 rake ($68)

Flop: Qd 7s 2d (two diamonds).

Villain #1 checks. Villain #2 bets $60. Hero????

Wanting to avoid pot commitment with just an over pair (and unsure about Villain #1's range), I elect to call. Villain #1 tanks for a second and calls as well.

Pot: $248

Turn: 2h

Villain #1 checks. Villain #2 checks. Hero???
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-18-2011 , 07:15 PM
Villain #1....his overcall on a drawy board doesn't signify much strength to me, so you can minimize him being ahead

Villain #2....KQ, QJ, Q10, Ax diamonds all make for a limp calling preflop and donk lead on the flop. The only hand you are behind is 77.

Your SPR on the flop is 4..given you have an ove pair, I wouldn't think about NOT getting pot committed. You are ahead of most of villain #2's range here

I'm uncertain as to the right bet amount. If you bet $150, more than likely, the "tight" villain #1 would fold and Villain #2 may call, which sets up a less than PSB shove on river.
I just don't want to bet an amount which would make villain #1 call, thus pricing villain #2 in.
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-18-2011 , 07:32 PM
with 248 in the pot and eff stacks being 219 with both villians i cant see much other play than a shove...i thinkin calling is ok on the flop with not much dynamic against villian but most of the time im raising to 150 and gettin it in...pretty drawy board and we're only 100 bbs deep
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-18-2011 , 07:42 PM
I end up betting $120 on the turn. But I am more concerned about the right play on the flop.
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-18-2011 , 07:53 PM
I end up betting $120 on the turn. But I am more concerned about the right play on the flop.
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-19-2011 , 01:31 AM
I like a flat on the flop because you are in position and the only draw on the board is a flush draw, pretty easy to fade with just one card coming.

You flat flop and the aggressor will be in an awkward position on the turn and will likely bet turn in which you can then shove over the top. This would be your best chance of getting both villains to commit all their chips while simultaneously having the worst odds for their draw. Or even better, they are calling with AQ/KQ type hands

Raising flop is also viable, you no doubt have the best hand and you should be itching to get stacks in.

Truthfully, I flat flop because I want both villains in the hand. You raise flop and good chance you are folding out V1. but if you flat, good chance V1 comes along for the ride. Pot on turn will be huge and just about equal to what you have behind which is ideal for a shove. Since by that point both villains are heavily vested, good chance they call (which is what we want).

Again, raising flop isn't terrible by any stretch, but I like a flat, get villains vested, then due to SPR on turn, they are practically committed and have to play for stacks on the turn and have to call your shove. This also gives them the opportunity to make a mistake and continue their agression on the turn which further commits them to playing for stacks
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-19-2011 , 01:45 AM
I raise the flop to 205 and commit. They are going to have KQ/QJ/JJ/TT/99 more often than a set.

Flat calling isn't bad either.

On the turn, the only option is to shove. If you bet ~ 100, you're going to give some idiot odds to call with their flush draw.
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-19-2011 , 02:01 AM
Tank shove the turn.
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-19-2011 , 06:54 AM
isn't just calling borderline FPS??
I'm sorry, but this bet from V is a bet I am almost never just calling, esp. in a 3 way pot.
I think it's very read dependant, whether you chose to go w/ the hand, which you prob should, but I can't see the advantages of calling outweighing just upside of getting it in as quick as you can; whatever line accomplishes that the best.
If you get coolered, so be it. you would really need to be almost twice as deep to want to play for pot control.
If you overbet ship, I can see getting looked up by worse, including draws.
letting a card come off, w/ a plan to fold if the flush comes in, is weak IMO; you are ahead of a naked flushdraw, so you want to get the $ in now.
I know there is a lot of talk about bet/folding, pot control w/ one pair, and it's all good stuff, they just don't apply to this hand, this time.
I actually like the board.
seriously, I would fold before I just call, w/ another player behind, who I am creating killer odds for, if I do so.
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-19-2011 , 01:41 PM
I would def raise this flop, as it gives passive V a much bigger chance of making a mistake. OTOH dgiharriss' point about letting aggro V V-town self and getting passive V vested is also valid.

AP, bet on turn is too small and any reasonable bet is effectively a shove. I shove turn and hope it makes me look like I'm FOS.
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-19-2011 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stampler
isn't just calling borderline FPS??....
I tiny bit...

but I think we are strong enough here and only have to fade one draw that its worth it.

Basically, I think we are strong enough in this spot such that we want both villains in the hand playing for stacks and I think that's best accomplished by flatting IP.

I think that if we shove flop, there's no way both villains are coming along for the ride. NOw, if we shoved flop and had a very good feel both players would call, then i'm all for shoving flop. Similarly, if the board was wetter, say something like Qd 7s 9d then i'd also be a fan of shoving flop.

but i think Qd 7s 2d is safe enough to slow down a bit and get villains vested so they are committed, then get it in on the turn.

again, i'm not opposed to a flop shove and think its also viable, but i'd go for the one two combo turn value-town knockout .
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-19-2011 , 04:06 PM
raise flop. shove turn
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote
03-19-2011 , 05:30 PM
I would be much more inclined to raise the flop if I don't have the A in my hand.

In that case, I could get called by the NFD, and I am more concerned about a diamond coming on the turn.

if I have the A, then I think that under-repping our hand on the flop is not terrible, although I am still inclined to raise.

Remember that most live players call too much (as their biggest leak). If you don't bet/raise, you can't profit from that leak.
AA in 1/3 at the Wynn Las Vegas Quote

      
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