My starting stack is $4500 in MP, Villain's is $4700 on the button. UTG raises to$ 40, UTG+1 calls $40, I 3 bet to $150 with AKs (clubs), villain calls on the button, blinds fold, UTG and UTG+1 calls. Pot at $615. Flop A74 with 2 hearts, no clubs. UTG, UTG+1, and I check. Button is a LAG ATC all in 3-4 times per hour player. He bets $150, UTG and UTG+1 fold, pot is at $765. I check raise to $600, pot is at $1,365. He goes all in, and I call thinking he has a flush draw or an A with a lower kicker based on my read from having played with him for a few hours. He hits his flush draw with J8s hearts. I lost a $9k+ pot, which is huge for me bc I'm a 2-5 player taking a shot at 5-10. What if anything did I do wrong?

WP…what else can you do?
Did you buy in for that much or bought in for less and chipped up? Pretty sick to lose an 900BB pot when you’re shot taking.
Did you ask the other player if he wanted to run it twice? I would recommend doing so in the future.
Good luck moving forward.

Bought in and chipped up from $1,500, my previous day's 2-5 winnings. So essentially was even for the weekend. Still hurts though.

Bet the flop. Why did you check? If we're checking then it should be to check call but you got it in as a huge favorite. You probably shouldn't be playing 5T if you are going to make adjustments based on getting sucked out on

3b s/b 200 - 250 ? 300 v this Villain so maybe he folds J8s

as played bet flop 500

& all in 450BBs at 5T with this line idk man

i understand it can be scary when shotting but big fan of piling in all the $ otf vs this player type once it gets back to you as played and HU

pretty hard to comment on how good/bad the line is given the info is unspecific. for sure can’t be bad

Also, while 450bbe is a healthy amount- what’s more relevant is the SPR which is not particularly high here

what is our equity if we give Villain 77 44 & all flush draws

cuz that is his exact range after the flop 3bet following the pre action

& OP isn’t properly rolled so maybe he should have folded

I’m hesitant to fold the second best hand in our range. It’s 8SPR. We have to call with something facing the jam. Think of MDF... this is exactly the type of Villain who we’re supposed to apply MDF-based reasoning too.

Agree it’s close though. Probably fold AK with K hearts.

How did you come up with that range? We're evaluating hands based on information provided by OP. His villain description: "Button is a LAG ATC all in 3-4 times per hour player"

If we're not properly rolled for a game, we should leave. Between hands.

Folding a hand that's marginally +EV because we're under rolled is fine. Here we're talking about a spot where we hold the second best hand in our entire range if the Ah is on the board. The latter is obviously a very important piece of information that's missing. We need to know if the board is Ah7h4x or Ax7h4h.

We need 40% equity to make the call. Let's set $ values / bankroll aside for a moment and check if we have that or not.

FWIW, I'm also not a fan of the suggested "bet $500 into $615" on the flop 4-way in a 3bet pot. Especially not without knowing stack sizes of UTG and UTG+1. Imagine one of the two has 100BB or less to start the hand.

What would be your c-bet sizing on this board 4-ways? Assume all players start with 200BB or more. Is 40% about right?

As others have said, the biggest thing you did wrong was not leaving the table once you chipped up to an amount you were uncomfortable losing.

If you have $4500 in front of you and the thought of losing it all makes you nervous, leave the game right away. Doesn't matter how good it is. This is especially true if you are shot taking.

I'm not just preaching here--the best session of my life ended this way. (More money, but same idea.)

I'd probably make a c-bet like $200 or something. But your plan seemed to work out in terms of getting it in good vs the laggiest player.

It's a bit results-oriented for me to think "you played it well, your reads were good" given that I know villain's cards, but I'll leave it up to you whether you think this flop is a dream situation based on what you observed being at the table or if villain 3betting flop all-in for 450BBs is trouble. As the cards turned out, that's the kind of situation you'd be happy to find yourself in, winning about 2/3 of the time when the money goes in.

If there's a question, it's either "did I range this player correctly (despite results)?" or "should I have walked away?" The second question is something you should think about in advance, make a game plan - you can set a threshold for what's way beyond your comfort level to lose.

the flop action funnels his range. what less than the two sets or flush outs ? what are we so ahead of that gets it in 450bb like this ? 4 BI for a flip ? esp if it’s A74xhh

& I agree flop cbet s/b smaller I forget it’s 4way

If I’m playing micro online id probably get it in but live for this much $ idk & maybe that’s a leak for me to work on

I disagree with everyone in here saying the hand was "played well". It was far from played well. The hand was over played. This is deep stacked poker, it's played different then shallow low stake games. You should never wanna get that much money in with just one pair in a 4 way 3bet pot. Not 450 big blinds, not to mention it's someone "taking a shot"...Looks like the big chipped-up stack got to the OP and he though he was invincible. It happens.

I think you mean inVINcible.

We don't know the stack sizes of UTG and UTG+1. I would never advocate for getting it in with them for 4BI without any other information.

I also wouldn't want to GII if button was described differently. And FWIW, I'm somebody who thinks balancing is overrated in most live settings where you never play a meaningful number of hands with most opponents. That said, we need a pretty good reason to fold the top of our range against somebody who is all-in 3-4 times per hour. That's >10% of all hands played.

Again, I don't understand why we can't have a rational discussion to figure out how much equity we have against his range.

Very good question. TBH, that's one of the spots where I'm way more confident in knowing what sizing isn't good. My first thought was $200-250 but I'm far from sure that's good.

One last FWIW: At least in my personal experience, one of the biggest differences between deep stacked 1/2 and 5/`10 is that the latter is played way more aggressive. At 1/2 a 400BB pot most of the times means there was a setup. At 5/10 it might mean we had the double straddle on again and somebody rivered two pair to beat TPTK.

If we aren’t prepared to stack off with 1 pair at 8SPR then we are vulnerable to being exploited by aggro whales who are capable of running big semibluffs, i.e., exactly the type of Villain described in OP. IME this hand is a call and maybe even AQ (no heart) if it takes this line. I understand this is a difficult call given the dollar amount, but it’s a snap if you think about it carefully.

I didn't see any info on him about what he was going all in with...could just be a guy with cooler after cooler, or was he doing it with nothing (which we've all seen ppl do), or maybe he was a short stack.

His calling range otb is probably so wide there as well, so he could have caught 2 pair but assuming he has a draw and "putting him on a FD" isn't how hero should be thinking, he almost has ATC there. So there's really not enough info I saw in the OP that we should be so confident about getting almost 5K in with a pair in 5/10.

Assume the board is Ah7x4h. If he plays any suited hand containing the cards 8-K, and any 79s-75s, and he has 77/44/A7s/A4s for value, then he has 15 combos of naked flush draws against which we have 62% equity, 4 combos of 7xh against which we have 47% equity, 6 combos of sets against which we have 0% equity, and 3 combos of two pair against which we have 15% equity.

So our equity is
(16*62+4*47+6*0+3*15)/29=43%

We have to call 3750 into a pot of 2000, so break even equity is 3750/(2000+2*3750)=3750/9500=39%.

So call under those assumptions.

Cool, thank you.

FWIW, we’re not drawing dead vs. sets (other than AA) but should have roughly 4% against 44 and maybe 3.5% against 77. We also should have slightly more than 15% against A7 and significantly more against A4. I’m on my phone and too lazy to look it up right now, but TPTK vs. TPBP without any FDs is actually somewhere between 75 : 25 and 70 : 30 depending on board texture because there are 6 direct outs on the turn. In our hand here, both K and 7 make AK a better two pair than A4.

Ahh, yes, I was being lazy. Looks like it’s actually 1.6% and 1.9% against 44 and 77, respectively.

Right again. It’s 15.5% and 27.5% for A4 and A7, respectively. Averages out to ~21.5%.

So the formula for our equity should be closer to
(16*62+4*47+6*2+3*21)/29=43.3%

My previous answer to 1 decimal of accuracy was 42.2% (I rounded up).

So many other adjustments can be made:

There are a few other hands that we’re flipping against that I neglected to include like 8h6h,5h3h, but I wanted to keep the hand categories to a minimum for simplicity. This shouldn’t change the answer much, though, cause it’s a small number of combos and Eq~50%.

We can also tinker with ranges by removing half of the naked flush draws (maybe Villain isn’t quite as wild as we suspected), dropping the 16 combos down to 8. That changes the equity in this second baseline to
(8*62+4*47+6*2+3*21)/21~36%.
Then calling would be a small mistake.

If we adjust the second baseline to give Villain all 6 combos of AK then our equity ticks back up to 39%. Calling =0 EV.

If we adjust the first baseline to give Villain all AK then our equity ticks up by 1% to 44%. Calling more +EV than before.

If V has all 8 combos of AQ then it’s a slam dunk +EV call in any case.