This may be a somewhat “standard” hand but doing a line check

1/2NL. Table desperately wants to be loose/passive multiway limpy every hand. I’m about the only one that is RFI and raising limpers…especially when in LP.

Hero is MAWG in LJ with 9s9h. $358eff.

Villain is 30-40ish, leaning towards passive so far. UTG+1 & has a little over $400.

Preflop- UTG, Villain, MP limp, Hero raises to $15. Folds back to Villain who L/RR to $50, MP folds, Hero calls.

*I didn’t insta-call as he’s probably QQ+, AK here but getting decent odds & will be in position

Flop ($100): JT8r. Villain checks, Hero bets $30, Villain thinks & raises to $110, Hero jams $308.

*Villain seems to be a competent enough player to know that this flop smacks my 3bet calling range. But I wasn’t sure about betting vs checking here, and whether to bet smaller range-y/value size vs bigger size that might have more fold equity but also makes calling a check/shove at worst neutral from an equity perspective (if I assume he may check/shove QQ+ only).

Thanks in advance!

Def not standard but the biggest pot I ever won in my life was sort of similar where I had 99 on T87 and B3B ai on flop in 3 b pot HU 300/600 and held vs AJ nfd. Def not standard in your hand tho.

Pre
Not sure what sizings people use in 1/2, but I think bigger over 3 limps. If you're standard open is 10, then maybe 15 is ok. As a general rule, I don't pay off people who limp raise because it's always the nuts and would just fold to the 3bet, especially if only 100bb effective. But with SPR of 3.5 and fairly likely to stack him though if you hit and you're in position so I don't hate it. Definitely fold to a bigger 3bet, and would fold oop.

Flop
We know he likely has an overpair, which he's not folding, and we're doing ok against AK even though it makes some of our straight outs dirty. Against a range of QQ+, we have ~30%. Against a range of JJ+, AK, we have 46%. I think AK gets discounted after the check raise. I think I check back in-game. Once I get X/Raised though I'm shipping it. Don't expect a fold very often but we're quite live.

weird hand, although tbh the flop CR smells like youre against some AQ/AK type hand that wants you to fold, and you're pot committed and want to see turn/river, so might as well jam.

pre might be a fold to the LRR too.

id also check the flop i dont see much point in betting.

Yeah I'm just folding to the reraise preflop. V sounds like nut peddler who is just waiting to trap H, who appears to be the only aggressive player at the table.

As played flop: We have more TT and 88, but V probably has more JJ. Rainbow board. I think our polar bets are combo draws (T9s/QJs) and 99, but I think they would use a bigger sizing. Our value bets here are probably our sets and JTs. We check our AQ.

So we go ahead and rep a big hand with a value bet, but V dgaf! He raises. I'm inclined to just flat call his raise getting 3-1 and evaluate. We have enough equity against his range to call at 3-1 like Pepperoni said.

Instead we jam and offer V roughly 5-2 to call. So we're targeting only his AK for a fold. He's getting the right price to call off the rest of his range.

Overall, I don't like it. Instead of taking the right odds on turn, we turn around and offer V the correct MDF price with the jam. I just think this is the theoretical opposite of what we're trying to do,

The preflop call is somewhat dubious. I actually think the more Villain’s range is weighted to AA and maybe KK, the more I like calling, since it means we’re going to be able to get stacks in when we flop a 9. But even then it is close.

As played, check back the flop. The worst-case scenario of a check is that Villain has AK/AQ and has 9 outs. The worst-case scenario of a bet is basically what you got: check/raised by better. Villain is highly unlikely to ever fold a better hand here; he knows you could have any set and reopened the betting anyway.

I would fold pre to the l/rr, and as stated you probably raised alil too little.

I'm also checking back the flop since he's hardly ever folding for $30, and when he c/r's us (this is hardly ever if at all AK or AQ, nitty old man) we can still get away from the hand without going broke. We would obviously have to hit a draw to win.

Preflop sizing 7.5xBB seems fine.

Flop bet is just awful. He isn't likely to be limp/reraising and check/folding the flop. You are 36% against AA/KK, and worse against QQ/JJ. 62% against AK/AQ. Sure, he could have whatever, but I would treat this as mostly AA/KK. You just have to take the free card and draw.

As played, it may be a flat call to the raise. You can't push.

Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me three times...

When you get this flop and he checks, it is very good for you. He usually has JJ+. You are probably drawing to 10 outs and usually can get stacks in if you hit. Flop play is just terrible. When he lrrs and x/rs flop, what do you put him on?

I doubt a loose passive player is having the AK/AQ very often in this spot. That's why you're jamming right, to deny equity to that? I could see AQ maybe, but that's rarely limp-raised. We can't be trying to get overpairs to fold because that is burning money, especially on a board like JT8. He could be ranging you incorrectly, just as you seem to be with him.

Long story short, he probably has an overpair, JJ, or TT and isn't folding. With that logic, I'm folding the flop.

Folding the flop is a disaster. You had a good chance to stack him. Flop bet is a disaster.

I usually RFI $10-12 in EP and and $8-10 in LP based on table dynamics...but agree probably could have gone a little bigger like $17 or so. We were 180BB deep, so I think it leans more towards a call. At 100BB, I think I almost insta-fold preflop.

In hindsight (and reading all responses), I think that checking-back flop almost 100% of time is definitely the best play here. I did think for a fair amount of time (~10sec) before betting. In-game I could see advantages/disadvantages to all 3 options (check, bet small, bet larger). Don't have access to a solver so I'm not sure what it would suggest...

Although people can always go crazy and do outlier stuff, in the room I play in, a L/RR from a 30-40ish+ player is almost always QQ+/AK. If the player is 65+, then AA/KK

On the flop, with a check, he definitely has QQ+, with some % of AK and maybe some slivers of JJ/TT. When he L/RR, I think his range gets condensed down to QQ+ (but weighted to more AA/KK), with maybe some slivers of AK that view my small bet as a FOS position bet from one of the more aggressive players at the table. Since I've gotten back in poker (with quite a fair amount of studying "GTO" betting), I definitely have noticed that many players will view smaller GTO "range bets" as "ohhh he must be bluffing me" bets, FWIW. It may/may not apply in this specific hand, though.

Calling the flop C/R seemed OK as I thought I had enough equity, but I did also think I had some amount of fold equity (albeit small) and get to see both turn/river if he does call. So I jammed.

But as many have said (and why I posted the hand)...I think the overwhelming best flop play is a check-back. Thanks for the response!



See above reply...in the room I play in, I've seen the L/RR with AK enough that there's some amount of it in his range (maybe not all combos, maybe discount it to 4 combos?). I figured jamming denies equity to an AK that thinks I may be FOS with my small flop bet...also occasionally I'll see passive nitty guys angry-fold AA/KK face-up when you jam on them on an ugly board and they think their limp/reraise "trap" didn't work. Again I'm not saying my line here was "right" or "the best", just the thoughts that made me ultimately jam. Thanks for your reply, it's appreciated!

Thanks for the replies and feedback so far!

So, if you check-back and the turn is a brick (let's say a low card that completes the rainbow), are you ever calling a lead-bet by the villian? If so, what size bets are you calling vs. folding to? I think I know the answer but just checking my thought process...

I agree with many of my fellow posters that this is a checkback on flop. Also that this is a bad spot pre-flop, but it's probably close enough to be reasonable.

Yes, you should call turn unless Villain chooses a massive sizing. If Villain's range when he limp re-raises pre, checks flop, and bets turn has all combos of QQ+ AK, you have 47% equity against his range on a turn brick. If Villain only has value here, you still have 19% equity. Your actual equity is probably somewhere in the middle of those two numbers.

Against a $75 bet (3/4 pot), you would need 30% equity to continue. I think it's likely you have that. It's unclear what Villain's real range that limp re-raises pre-flop and then checks flop but I think we can allow for a certain amount of AK bluffs or random spew. You probably have some implied odds as well (especially on a 7 or vs. QQ on a Q).

PRE - when you're the only aggro at the table and one of the passive rec-fish limp-3B's you, it's usually a big hand. We're not deep enough to set-mine, so I probably fold 99 to the 3B.

FLOP - I probably check back and take a free card. Take a bluff-catcher/defensive line unless we improve. Shouldn't be too hard to get stacks in if we spike a 7, 9, or Q. Might be able to rep some 2P and trips on a board-pair.

AP, when V check-raises, I could go either way between fold or jam, but it's mostly just a fold. There's almost no chance he's limp-3B'ing and check-raising flop with a worse hand.

Fold preflop to the limp reraise. $35 more isn't worth it. As played, check back flop. Now that you got CR on the flop, just call the CR and hope that you get a good turn card.

There isn't any point at shoving at these stack sizes because you don't have enough stack behind to get Villain to fold an overpair.

I know that it's tempting to shove over his CR to represent a hand that beats an overpair, but guys who limp reraise UTG at 1/2 NL are not good targets for fancy bluffs for hoping them to hero fold over pairs with a huge chunk of their stack already in the pot.

I would guess that Villain only folds an overpair like 5-10% of the time to a shove.