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89 flop trips what to do? 89 flop trips what to do?

07-19-2014 , 12:15 AM
Hero ($250): New table playing TAG have taken down 3 pots recently and not shown down any so could be viewed as aggro. Mid 20s.

Table: tight, people aren't cbetting with air and top pair+ is the requirements for people betting. No individual reads at this time.

Hand: guy in MP raises to $12, guy in the HJ calls, and I call on the BTN with 89. BB calls.

Flop ($49): 993

Checked to me. Hero?
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 12:22 AM
I would bet $35ish. If you think you can check and hope they improve their hands on the turn, where you can then value-bet. I would argue that any hand that can improve on the turn to give you action, likely calls a flop bet. So in my opinion you should bet the flop instead of checking back.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 01:36 AM
I bet here a lot. I think most Vs have a hard time believing hero has a 9 when leading. Even less so when on button. Four to five red birds is the bet
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 01:41 AM
Bet, we get floated often.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 03:56 AM
Check, nothing you are getting value from for 3 streets, bet turn.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 04:39 AM
Given read of table, I think checking might be optimal (and hope for an overcard to hit turn). 2 meaningful checks by MP & HJ make it difficult for this to be a "play for stacks" hand on the flop. If everyone still has air on the turn, at least there will be some impetus to make a bet for one of them.

Betting maximizes against weaker current made hands, mainly pocket pairs. Unfortunately, two actions tell us they're not likely to be out there. Combinations also make it less likely for them to be out there.

Checking maximizes against all else, as they are unlikely to call a flop bet (tight table read, everybody). The only real risk of a check is making a negative equity slowplay (Giving a pocket pair a free 2 outer) and ending up losing a lot of money. I think it's worth that risk to sometimes get 2 or more bets in against hands that would have just mucked to a flop bet.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 05:07 AM
*grunch*

first off, there's no real right answer to this. the right answer is that sometimes you check and sometimes you bet. I like a 20-25 bet here against unknowns because I'm going to fire here a lot in position when checked to and I want them to peel with their dominated hands. if I get c/r I'm most likely going to play pot control from then out.

checking back is fine too because its hard to get 3 streets from worse and the board is the serengeti so there's not much harm in waiting to get value and trying to get your "3rd" street by raising turn or river.

as a default with no history, I lean towards betting, though this is a situation where hero should be very responsive to table dynamics.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 05:13 AM
Given described table dynamics I probably check back and reevaluate after turn action.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 06:13 AM
I like a bet. I think you can generally get two streets from lower pps, and betting now might also get some floats from overcards, and then you are in a better position to determine whether you want to put a second barrel in on the turn or the river. but if you have more specific reads, you probably won't to go with those.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 06:37 AM
I prefer a smallish bet.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 09:50 AM
Players at tables like these can smell a check - bet a mile away, even if an A hits on the turn. Bet now and hope you get a caller. Find a better table if possible.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 09:51 AM
I would bet about $25-$30 because it looks so FOS from the button.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 10:08 AM
Bet/Bet/? Line. Every time.

When you check, you:
* Lose a street of value
* Feel compelled to call the river overbet shove from 33 or 93 (I know 93 is really unlikely, but still, you get my point).

Like the other guy said, you'll get floated here allot, so you DO get value, but losing a little value is way better than losing your stack due to FPS. Bet your hand.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 10:54 AM
I bet $20 because I always lead with these hands. Everyone folded. Just curious if its worth a check back on some of these tight tables to let them catch up.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havax
I bet $20 because I always lead with these hands. Everyone folded. Just curious if its worth a check back on some of these tight tables to let them catch up.
Maybe if you have AK and the board is A72r, or you had 99 on a 993 board vs one opponent, I might think about it. But your hand has some vulnerability here, it's a multi-way pot, defining your hand now can be beneficial, plus you really don't want someone to catch a full house and then be asking yourself whether you induced their aggression by checking earlier.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 12:42 PM
Ummm why is anyone worried about someone catching up with a fullhouse by checking back there... that is just ultimate mubs
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2
Ummm why is anyone worried about someone catching up with a fullhouse by checking back there... that is just ultimate mubs
Because:

1. Tight passive players are not putting money into this pot with 22, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88 unless they improve.
2. If they had a better pair (tens-plus) we would have heard about it.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 12:56 PM
Grunch

I check the flop given table dynamic. One of these three need help catching up save for a flopped boat that you don't want to start paying off on the flop anyway.

Though I will add that you're a lock to win the pot betting the flop, so if you want to keep up your facade of aggro without showing, you have $48 to add to your stack. I'd fish for more, though.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by au4all
Because:

1. Tight passive players are not putting money into this pot with 22, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88 unless they improve.
2. If they had a better pair (tens-plus) we would have heard about it.
So if they arent even calling with a pair... you want to bet the flop to get people to float/peel with two overs? And at the time fold out pocket pairs so they dont catch up?

I hope you can see the impeccable logic in this.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 01:01 PM
Also you know a pocket pair is drawing to 2 outs for a boat, while two overs have 6...
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I would bet about $25-$30 because it looks so FOS from the button.
that has merit at many tables but given op's description this isn't likely one of them

check >> bet $10 >>>>>> bet medium or large
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2
So if they arent even calling with a pair... you want to bet the flop to get people to float/peel with two overs? And at the time fold out pocket pairs so they dont catch up?

I hope you can see the impeccable logic in this.
They are most certainly calling the flop with a pocket pair. They likely aren't playing for stacks unless they boat up. By contrast, 2 overs likely aren't playing for stacks if they hit top pair. Also, when we bet this flop our hand strength is quite concealed. We could have a nine, a three, a pocket pair or complete air. If we check flop, what do we do when someone leads into us on the turn (which is quite likely if someone hits top pair)? The problem is that in order to play a big pot in that circumstance we will have to turn our hand face up.

FWIW, the deeper we are and the more villains that are in the hand, the more important it is that we bet this hand for value.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen
Bet, we get floated often.
Depends on Villains of course, but I do this a ton and get A3 to call 3 streets all day
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindPokerAllDay
They are most certainly calling the flop with a pocket pair. They likely aren't playing for stacks unless they boat up. By contrast, 2 overs likely aren't playing for stacks if they hit top pair.
Also, when we bet this flop our hand strength is quite concealed. We could have a nine, a three, a pocket pair or complete air.
If we check flop, what do we do when someone leads into us on the turn (which is quite likely if someone hits top pair)?
The problem is that in order to play a big pot in that circumstance we will have to turn our hand face up.

FWIW, the deeper we are and the more villains that are in the hand, the more important it is that we bet this hand for value.
Umm, Im not really sure what you are trying to say here..

Why would we want to play for stacks here? This hand isnt one to play for stacks with, given the table dynamic and action so far..

If someone leads into us on the turn, then we call? Depending on the turn card..
89 flop trips what to do? Quote
07-19-2014 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2
Check, nothing you are getting value from for 3 streets, bet turn.
this. that board is ultra dry. you are only going to get 3 streets of value from 77+. with everyone checking, it is most likely that no one has anything.

if you check the flop, at least someone can get on a draw on the turn.
89 flop trips what to do? Quote

      
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