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6 way 3bet pot 6 way 3bet pot

03-24-2014 , 09:45 AM
Playing 5-5 blinds 9 handed I limp with KhTh after 3 callers. Next player 3 bets to 125. When it gets back to me there's about 600 in the pot and original raiser
has about 200 left, I have about 800 left. As I' thinking 3 better laughs and comments "I'm good now bu who knows after the flop." I call. Flop T rag rag rainbow. I check 3 better bets 265 original better calls all in, I call.
Turn rag, check check. River J, check all in, call. He tables Ace Jack.
In hindsight I feel like I made numerous blunders. Any comments?
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03-24-2014 , 10:24 AM
You really need to give more information. What are stacks?

Also if there are 4 limps, villain is just isolating raising to 125? or was there actually a raise somewhere and then 3 callers plus you (in which case you called a raise?) and he's 3betting to 125?

Please clarify. It's confusing as stated.
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03-24-2014 , 11:51 AM
Your right it was raised to 25 two callers then I called. I also made a mistake about my stack, I had 800 dollars left after the flop bet. So on the flop with $100 to me I had
about 1150 left. 3 better covered everybody, original raiser had 200 left after calling the 3 bet. One other payer had about 400 left after calling the 125 everybody else had stacks
similar to mine.
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03-24-2014 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diafoetoe
Your right it was raised to 25 two callers then I called. I also made a mistake about my stack, I had 800 dollars left after the flop bet. So on the flop with $100 to me I had
about 1150 left.
3 better covered everybody, original raiser had 200 left after calling the 3 bet. One other payer had about 400 left after calling the 125 everybody else had stacks
similar to mine.
Man, I'm out of it today. Bolded part should be Preflop with 100 to me I had about 1150 left. Sorry.
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03-24-2014 , 11:59 AM
As much as it sucks calling pre and flopping a pretty good flop for you and then folding, I would just fold the flop.

If squeezer bet and original raiser folded, then I would call.

I would definitely fold the river shove. The pot is protected by the all-in player, so he can't be bluffing here with air.
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03-24-2014 , 12:12 PM
Sorry, but your post is pretty much a complete train wreck. From start to finish.
I'd really try and take 5-10 minutes to read some of the stickied posts as the top of forum to help guide you on how to post hand histories.

It looks like you called a 3b OOP with KTs, with and 80bb stack.
In general, without a read this is a leak I'm pretty sure.

After that, I can't really follow the post, so good luck, I can't help you.
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03-24-2014 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffey24
As much as it sucks calling pre and flopping a pretty good flop for you and then folding, I would just fold the flop.

If squeezer bet and original raiser folded, then I would call.

I would definitely fold the river shove. The pot is protected by the all-in player, so he can't be bluffing here with air.
Yes! The all-in, didn't even think about that. Would have saved me 800.

Post mortem it also hit me that if I can't call with top pair on the flop
I should fold preflop, despite the big pot odds. Also occurred to me that if I'm going to call down I should shove on the flop either before or after the cbet.
Finally when he said "I'm good now don't know about after the flop"
I figured he had big pocket pair. Clearly that's what he wanted me to
think, so I should lean the other way. Am I thinking clearly or is this a case of hindsight always being 20/20?
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03-24-2014 , 04:38 PM
Don't mean to sound like an ass but here's a list of blunders we made:
  • Blunder #1: Called a raise IP with K10s when we should 3b/fold

    If we are calling to 'hit' then we should do so with hands like small-medium pp's and sc's. Doing so with broadways is a recipe for disaster because we are going to miss a ton of the time and will have to play creative post flop if we want to win the pot ever. Mostly we are going to be facing bets with very little equity and will have to fold. We are also going to be dominated some of the time too which will result in us losing the moneys.

  • Blunder #2: Called a 3b oop with K10s when we should fold

    K10s is one of those hands that 'look' pretty. Problem is that they flop ****ty most of the time. Even when we do flop 'good' or what seems good, we are still in a ****ty spot against any (competent) 3b's range, especially oop (as evidenced in this hand).

  • Blunder #3: Check/called a 3b's cbet on the flop when we should fold

    This one is kind of close I guess. Obviously he has a ton of combo's of AJ+ that whiffed and is just straight up stabbing (terrible stab on his part btw into 5 ppl). Nevertheless we don't exactly feel confident, again as witnessed in this hand. We have a showdown value medium strength hand. We want to call, but we are unsure of where we stand. We could raise, but that's sort of counter-acting the way our medium strength hand should be played. If we raise, we are only getting action from hands that have us crushed. If we call, we get no further information with where we stand in the hand. A call here is ok I guess, but essentially without a soul read we are calling one bet to get to showdown if we do not improve our hand. Any further action from 3bettor means our spot just got that much ****tier and we now really have to fold.

  • Blunder #4: Check/called a 3b's river value bet with 2nd pair when we should fold

    This is a no-brainer. There is literally 0% chance that we are ever ever remotely close to being good on this board in this spot. I guess you could say that he may be trying to cut his losses by taking the minimal sidepot with AQ/AK, but guess what he's also padding his wins with A10, AJ and JJ+.

Here is the thing. When we are playing in games where raised pots go multiway regularly, we should not be trying to fit in and play along like everyone else. If everyone is making the same mistakes than it's all a wash and we're essentially playing bingo. We need to stand out. We need to be more selective (unlike our loosepassive opponents) of our limping/calling hands and we need to start taking initiative by 3b in spots that look good for us (also unlike our loosepassive opponents). Like I said earlier, if we are calling to hit with trash like K10s we are setting ourselves up for disaster because we will gradually bleed chips due to missing 75% of the time. Then even when we do hit, we still have no idea where we stand and will put ourselves in ****ty spots playing for lots of chips.

Cliffs: 3b/fold pre.
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03-24-2014 , 05:56 PM
And, here are some corrections we have/are going to make.
  • Correction #1: We've posted the hand on 2+2 to hear other people's opinions on what we did right/wrong.

    This is a good first step to take. Rather than dismiss the hand as a cooler, we are addressing not only the issues in this particular hand, but issues in our approach to any hand or game.

  • Correction #2: We are going to listen to other people's opinions and/or advice and we are going to process it without bias.

    This is crucial. Rather than to dismiss the opinions and/or advice we are given, regardless of how different, illogical or unorthodox it may seem, we are going to listen to it, think about it and process it. This will help us to better understand the game and will help us to better prepare for the next time we are faced with a similar situation.

  • Correction #3: We are going to apply what we've learned in the future.

    Surely, similar spots will come up frequently in the future. If we just dismiss hands, whether they be crucial or ordinary, we are not really improving. Posting on 2+2, talking to friends, thinking of alternate lines we could have taken all help us better understand the situation and the game in general and prepare us for battle the next time.
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03-25-2014 , 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotwoot
Don't mean to sound like an ass but here's a list of blunders we made:
  • Blunder #1: Called a raise IP with K10s when we should 3b/fold

    If we are calling to 'hit' then we should do so with hands like small-medium pp's and sc's. Doing so with broadways is a recipe for disaster because we are going to miss a ton of the time and will have to play creative post flop if we want to win the pot ever. Mostly we are going to be facing bets with very little equity and will have to fold. We are also going to be dominated some of the time too which will result in us losing the moneys.

  • Blunder #2: Called a 3b oop with K10s when we should fold

    K10s is one of those hands that 'look' pretty. Problem is that they flop ****ty most of the time. Even when we do flop 'good' or what seems good, we are still in a ****ty spot against any (competent) 3b's range, especially oop (as evidenced in this hand).

  • Blunder #3: Check/called a 3b's cbet on the flop when we should fold

    This one is kind of close I guess. Obviously he has a ton of combo's of AJ+ that whiffed and is just straight up stabbing (terrible stab on his part btw into 5 ppl). Nevertheless we don't exactly feel confident, again as witnessed in this hand. We have a showdown value medium strength hand. We want to call, but we are unsure of where we stand. We could raise, but that's sort of counter-acting the way our medium strength hand should be played. If we raise, we are only getting action from hands that have us crushed. If we call, we get no further information with where we stand in the hand. A call here is ok I guess, but essentially without a soul read we are calling one bet to get to showdown if we do not improve our hand. Any further action from 3bettor means our spot just got that much ****tier and we now really have to fold.

  • Blunder #4: Check/called a 3b's river value bet with 2nd pair when we should fold

    This is a no-brainer. There is literally 0% chance that we are ever ever remotely close to being good on this board in this spot. I guess you could say that he may be trying to cut his losses by taking the minimal sidepot with AQ/AK, but guess what he's also padding his wins with A10, AJ and JJ+.

Here is the thing. When we are playing in games where raised pots go multiway regularly, we should not be trying to fit in and play along like everyone else. If everyone is making the same mistakes than it's all a wash and we're essentially playing bingo. We need to stand out. We need to be more selective (unlike our loosepassive opponents) of our limping/calling hands and we need to start taking initiative by 3b in spots that look good for us (also unlike our loosepassive opponents). Like I said earlier, if we are calling to hit with trash like K10s we are setting ourselves up for disaster because we will gradually bleed chips due to missing 75% of the time. Then even when we do hit, we still have no idea where we stand and will put ourselves in ****ty spots playing for lots of chips.

Cliffs: 3b/fold pre.
All makes sense. Blunder #2 was made out of ignorance. Was planning to fold as soon as the 3b came as I realized I was likely dominated, but when 4 others called in front of me I was suddenly unsure. Could I play my cards like suited (semi)connectors since I'm getting such large pot odds? From your comment on blunder #1 I now know that I shouldn't.
And of course one never calls the flop when one only hits top pair with sc's especially with small S/P ratio, so I did not even act consistently.
I also now think I made the meta blunder of not thinking ahead.
What do I do if I flop top pair? And on the flop: will I be pot committed if I call?

At any rate I really appreciate your clear explanations.
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