5/5 blinds, 500NL

villain1 (UTG) is very loose. he has about $1500
villain2 (UTG+1) is pretty TAG solid and I'm sure he's aware of both villain1's and my image. he has about $900
hero (MP1) is TAG. he has about $1500

preflop: hero (MP1) dealt AhKs
UTG minraises to $10, UTG+1 raises to $45, hero raises to $145, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls

flop ($440): Ac As Jc
2 checks, hero bets $100, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises to $450, hero?

I assume this is a fold, but just double-checking

i think you have to fold. youre 100 dollar continuation bet really defined your hand, and his raise can really only be JJ/AJ. Also, since villian has an spr of less than 2, fold is probably the only option, since you don't have the nuts.

I'm not necessarily sure this is an auto-fold, though I can definitely see it as an option.

First of all, I'm throwing out LAG Villain (LV) and concentrating solely on TAG Villain (TG). While LV matters, it seems like he's LAG enough to call the $100 with a wide range and if he has you beat, well that sucks ... but it seems like it's really TG that you need to deal with.

Let's look at the hand from TG's perspective. LAG min-raise, pop it up, TAG guy who might be trying a squeeze because he's smart and knows I might be raising light due to LAG repops. What's the range to call after LAG calls? I'd say fairly large, like AJ+, 99+, maybe even KQ or some other similar natures. TG is looking at a being priced in with a lot of hands at this point, and while he may be TAG he's got to be reraising LAG lighter than standard here.

Once the flop hits and its checked to TAG hero, can hero be expected to do anything but bet? Furthermore the $100 bet is a super underbet. WTF? $100 into a $450 pot? If you bet so little into that pot, I think you have to be ready to defend it. Because as it is, it looks like a super weak steal. AQ is completely within TG's range - in fact is a strong portion of it. Do you really think he's thinking his AQ isn't good at this point? From his perspective post-flop no one has shown any sign of strength.

The more I think about it, the more I hate the ridiculously small flop bet, and think that bet sizing turns this into a call due to the fact that your hand is super under-repped here. I like a check behind more than I like a $100 bet - WAY more. What was the reasoning behind this size? If you're going to bet that much with TP/TK on trip A then fold to any bet...I don't get it.

Also, TG's bet is very reasonable considering the pot. Any A would do this.

I think you are down to AQ, AK, or JJ, with some added random suited Ax like AT or A9. All in all ... you underrepped your hand and now you must pay for it by stacking off. IMO.

So you bet $100 into a $440 pot and are surprised that you get squeezed by a TAG when a spewy LAG gets caught in the middle? I would never bet this much if I was planning on folding to a raise, seeing as how you practically asked for one. Actually I'm not sure why you bet what you did (not saying it's right or wrong either way as long as you understand why you bet that amount) and have a feeling you don't either.

I would call since you have position and can guarantee the turn won't get checked through.

You will be getting ~2.1:1 (risking 650 more to win 1390...maybe I can't add) to raise AI if you think UTG always folds and UTG+1 always calls with a very tight range.

Board: Ac Jc As
Dead:

win
Hand 0: 33.758% { AhKs }
Hand 1: 66.242% { JJ, AdKd, AdKh }

Add in any combos of AQ or KcQc or a rare bluff b/c of your sizing then it seems live a shove.

I'm not folding this, but I have 2 questions:

1. why the flop betsizing?
2. why the pf betsizing?

Remember we are pretty deep here.

Also I think as has been alluded to, not only did OP's betsizing here defined his hand but it also unnecessarily made it transparent and wasted your position.

Snap fold this is jj everytime. Put this in microstakes

RivMeaDream,

If your post isn't a level, I suggest you go back to micro stakes...and change your location.

His posts are always levels...

Don't understand your $100 flop bet...

I'm on my BB so could someone Stove this hand against a wider range (all available AJ+ & the 3 combos of JJ)

At first glance though, I'm not folding

next time you want to bet/fold just bet 5 and save yourself them 95 of us-american dollars!!!

So you cold four bet AK, flopped trips, made a bet that looks scared, got raised, and now want to fold? I like it. Just fold and wait for a royal flush so you know you have the best hand imo.

Folding trips in a raised pot is do-able. In a 3bet pot never. In a 4bet pot...

12,870 games 0.005 secs 2,574,000 games/sec

Board: As Ac Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.817% 29.76% 15.06% 3830 1938.00 { AhKs }
Hand 1: 55.183% 40.12% 15.06% 5164 1938.00 { JJ, AJs+, AJo+ }

if anyone was curious...

This IS a joke topic right?

If this isn't a joke topic, quit poker imo.

alright, i'll answer the cbet sizing in hopes of getting flamed/learning.

The reasons for betting was 1) for value and 2) for information. I thought my weak bet would get called by worse from UTG. If I bet more, like $350, 1) I can't imagine what worse hands will call (maybe AQ) from either player and 2) I don't know if I can fold if UTG+1 shoves for $400 more into what would be a $1540 pot.

For those who say bet bigger on the flop, how much, for what reason, and plan if raised by UTG+1?

ps - The hands were shown so I can post results if people like, but I don't think it matters

op, youre hurting my brain

when you cbet that small on a paired board to decent opponents it means you either have air or a monster. however, judging by your unwillingness to call a raise you obv think that you have neither.. eg you got QQ/KK which would justify your line considering whether to call that raise. but since they think that you have air or monster(and they could've raised with just a pair to test you) by betting-small-and-considering-folding what you are telling them is that you will bluff small at a paired flop and fold to a raise.

so essentially you've TURNED YOUR TRIPS AND TOP KICKER INTO A BLUFF which is terrible im sorry to say.

i haven't gotten an answer to my previous question yet, but I'd like to pose another one.

it seems most people are in the camp that we're committed on this hand, regardless of action. then i don't understand why a weak cbet isn't optimal if that's the case. a weak cbet might get called by worse or might induce villain to raise. isn't that better than betting strong and getting committed when we're behind or folding out weaker hands that might have considered calling or raising?

btw, this hand went to show down so i can share results. i don't think it matters, but when i saw the hands, I questioned my own action, which is why i'm posting it.

Ur missing the point... U 3bet w/AK & hit trips w/TK... UR COMMITED!!! Betting $100 to induce is fine (I guess) but not to fold to a raise. I'm embarrassed that in an earlier post I said 'at first glance I'm not folding' but I was on my BB & figured there had to be more to the hand. I should have said 'easiest ship in the history of poker. If u lose, u lose... Suck it up!

As someone already said, it's not the betting of the $100 that's causing people to say "wtf", it's the betting of $100 then contemplating folding. If your plan was to weak-bet to induce a raise, then shove on whoever raised, that'd be a fine plan if you had reason to believe someone would raise. I'm more of the mind that you'd want to check behind on the flop and try to raise a turn if that's your plan. However I think a stronger action is to bet into the flop as it's the least expected and your hand is such that it's probably either getting action or not - and the way it's played any thinking person will have to either put you on AK or underpair/weak which is great for you. Weak bet might just get called, checked to, then a 2nd bet would just cause people to go away.

Regardless, your plan of action for this hand should be more of a goal of getting money in the center than it should be of finding a fold.

I agree that your bet induced a raise by any competent player. Against a competent TAG, you should have induced a bluff to get you off your hand. Raise > Call > Fold.

Or hem and haw for 5 minutes and say "will you show if I fold", do a pump fake fold 5x, eventually muck AK and claim you folded JJ and he must have AA.

what are the results?

Well, in this hand, my intent was to bet weak to induce a call or raise, however I did not expect a raise from UTG+1 after a call from UTG. I expected either
1) 2 folds
2) 1 or 2 calls
3) 1 fold and 1 call or raise
i'm happily getting it in all 3 of these circumstances.

Anyway, I considered the fact that this was a 4bet pot and that I bet so weak and got called by a LAG so UTG+1 could be making a move, so I called.
UTG then folded what he later claimed was KQs.

Turn: J
UTG+1 ships, hero insta calls at this point

River: T

UTG+1 shows AJ

I really thought UTG+1 would only make this move with AJ or JJ, but once the 2nd J hit, I was a bit happier about it, although I'm chopping with AQ now.

anyway, moral of the story is, run good and nothing else matters