Let me start by saying this may be an easy decision but i think more goes into it than meets the eye...idk worth a shot posting...

V1 has ~1700 (H covers) younger kid who is known in the room for being a maniac...shovels money in wide. will fold to aggression even after putting lots of money in. in fact two players at our game moved over right before his name was called to join the game so they could be on his left. I have never played w him but he was the talk of the table once his name was called....only hand I have seen is him shoveling money in OTT when he turned a 6 high combo draw....and showed after everyone folded......I have played one hand vs him to this point where I 3! his open, bet my range on a KJ5 flop where he called and I barreled on an A turn and he insta mucked.

H - MAWG winning image but was just caught re-bluffing a river when the opponent clearly had a 1 pair weak steal sizing but tank called with 4th pair lol. but V only has been at the table about 40 minutes

OTTH

V1 UTG+1 opens for $50 (his standard opening size) one caller before its folded to me OTB....H 3! to $225 w AdKs...V quickly flats (he always acts quickly).....caller folds...

FLOP $515 Td8d3c

V1 checks....H c-bets $150....V1 check raises to $450...I tank flat to the small raise (?)....to which .V then counts out his 100's for me and tells me he has 1000 behind ...mind you I didn't ask...

Turn $1415 10s V ships his last $1000 H?

thoughts?

I'm not sure what you were hoping for calling the flop, but probably should decide then whether it's As, Ks, diamonds, board pairs or any card that's not a 6/7/9/J/Q. If it's just As and Ks flop call is too thin.

I don't hate a call here, I think having the Ad on the flop is good for equity, having it now is bad because you block the NFD.

I think in your shoes against a reasonable V, I'd range V at ATo, KTs, QTs, JTs, T9s, TT/88/33, maybe JJ for value and KQ/KJ/K9/QJ of diamonds, J9s, 97s for bluffs? So about 33ish combos of value and 12 of bluffs. But you're buried vs. the value and he's quite live with the bluffs? Maybe that's a better way to frame this problem -- if the worst thing V will show up here is any two diamonds, I think it's still probably a fold because V gets 32% of the equity if they're the 9 and the 2, but 88% equity if they contain a 3.

Also, can maniac have 55 here? Because that's also really bad for you.

tempting to jam over the xr even though solver seems to like AxKd in similar spots. this seems like the wrong hand and villain to bet small against though otf

agreed i went from liking i had Ad to hating it. so only clubs and hearts of xT suited hands here. would he ever be doing this with JJ QQ? I guess even a maniac can have the goods ....sigh...i think its a tricky spot tbh. His showing me how many bills he had also came into play...almost as to say hey if you call my flop raise this is how much is going in next street...I kind of took this as a scare tactic...not really wanting a call. then he followed thru

You don't have a lot of history with villain really. Even with a lot of table talk and seeing him show down a bluff, I would be cautious to read too much into it.

What was the speed of his turn jam? Good chance he would play suited broadway, suited connectors, and fair chance he has suited gappers with diamonds this way. All the value hands are not clear he plays like this. TT, 88, 33, T8 would play the flop like this, but it isn't clear they play the turn like this. Tx would play the turn like this, but it isn't clear they would play the flop like this since you can have all the over pairs, and I wouldn't give him ATo. QQ or JJ that just decided to go with it make some sense too. He could maybe have 97 or J9 without diamonds.

29.3% equity needed to call. This would be a fold in theory and I think it is close in practice. With so many variables, vs his actual range that does this, this is either a big mistake to call or a barely breaking even to okay call. Ad is clearly a bad card to have. Ks doesn't unblock KTs but isn't that bad. AK without the Ad is a much better call, especially with clubs or hearts since those block Tx suited combos. AcKc, AhKd, AcKd are probably your best AK combos to call flop and turn, aside from AdKd. Kd is not the best card, but should block less flush draws than Ad, and it is hard to call flop without at least a BDFD.

I feel like flop is also a key decision point. A maniac is probably not going to be giving up turn and/or river very often. Sometimes it is okay to float in theory hands because it assumes that our opponent has a lot of bluffs but is going to give up a lot of those bluffs on future streets. If we don't think villain is giving up much in future streets, we can kind of think of the flop as a jam, which would be an overbet. We have equity vs his range, but unless we hit an A or K on turn, we are going to have a hard time realizing that equity if the jam is coming on the turn most of the time. So I think we can fold flop after raised.

The other thing about this flop is that it is not a range bet. We should bet this texture a lot less, and when we do bet it, we can size up to like half pot. A check is okay here. We can also check and check raise strong hands and some bluffs here.

Vs maniacs in general, we should cbet way less. Give him room to hang himself when we have decent to good hands and also our hands that have decent showdown value and equity. A like AK with the backdoor nutflish draw, nut no pair, two overs, fits nicely in our check range. If we hit an A or K, we have a strong hand. We may be able to bluff if the flush gets there. We have some showdown value. But we hate getting raised with this hand. This hand is okay to bluff sometimes though because you have equity vs his continue range and you need some hands to bluff when diamonds come in. That is better vs more passive villains though, not a maniac.

You're going to get bluffed off of some hands vs this guy, and that's okay. You can win big pots vs this guy, but you can't win all pots vs this guy.

I think I like jam flop better than call and call brick/A/K/diamond turns.

I put zero weight into the table talk. A lot of people it indicates strength, others it indicates weakness, and some people mix well enough that it's safest to ignore it unless you have a strong, long-term read on this V.

One more thing, 3bet is a little small given the cold caller, I would probably go at least $250, maybe $275, and I wouldn't hate $300. Especially with the cold caller. If he wants to play really wide pre with a 5x raise size and call 3bets wide, either price him out or charge him huge.

yeah i was curious about pre 3! but being in position I chose 4x + a little (3x og raise + 1 for caller)

Thanks. I agree with all you said

FYI his turn jam was snap jam. No thought. He made his kind up the second I called the flop CR

Ah, for some reason I thought you were in SB and button with the cold caller. I actually love your sizing then. Flop bet call are more reasonable in position. I think sizing is also okay, but definitely an argument for having only half pot and check on this flop.

Vs this villain I still like checking more on the flop than I normally would. Turn diamond, A, or K all are very nice. While it would be nice to bet small flop and have the option to check turn for a free river, vs this villain we won't get that luxury as often, so we might take our free card on the turn.

Calling his raise on the flop is a little better. 21% equity would give you direct odds to call, and any A, K, or diamond gives you a nice card to continue on, which is about 32% of the deck. The thing is, if turn comes a diamond and you get jammed on, it still doesn't look great for you. So you could really just fold the flop still. Still lean towards folding turn.

We have had quite a few HHs here recently where tight H is playing loose V in non-deepstack situations and then makes a downbet c-bet on flop.

So I think it's time for a general discussion of this strategy overall when we are below 200 bb deep.

In general, there's merit in downbet on unconnected board favoring H's range. But in this case, I just don't see how we have any downbets even with the Ad in our hand. SPR is around 3 and V has range and arguably nut advantage.

We are checking back our TT/88, our NFD and maybe our AdAx. We are probably sizing up our premium hands in need to equity denial - 99/JJ/QQ. The downbet really doesn't accomplish much.

AP: obviously I prefer to check back flop. Getting x-raised is just gross here. If we are calling his raise, I think it's with the intent of jamming all brick turns. We are not floating at this stack depth.

Turn T is a bad card for H and I think this is a fold even against a maniac and even getting 5-2 to call.

By calling the flop you're basically playing him based on hearsay. I would probably just check, not expecting an aggressive "maniac" will fold on that flop anyway.

Pre I would raise to 200 but 225 was fine. Going higher only makes the hand more difficult when we're playing post flop with ace high. If I had AA/QQ/KK, sometimes I would go higher than standard.

I would just fold to the flop raise.

Why is his check raise small? It's 3x your bet in a 3bet pot.

The call vs the raise is questionable, but the turn is a clear fold IMO.

I’m
Never cr less than 4x oop. So to me it’s small

Check raises are a topic in which I 've done some research to find the proper size. It's not a settled topic. I don't recall anyone recommending 4x raises in, but it might make sense when you are playing deep stacks and you want to set it up so you can jam river. But here's a 3 bet pot. Large sizes aren't needed, it's easy to get stacks in.

If he raises to $600, the pot size on the turn $1715 with him having $875 behind for a half-size pot bet. This means that's he's giving you an easy decision to fold with the marginal parts of your range on the flop, so that you can continue with the stronger part of it facing a very easy call on the turn.

Whereas now, he's giving you a difficult decision on the flop and a difficult decision on the turn facing a 72% sized bet.

It's arguable that if you have a set here OOP, you can just flat too. And vs this cbet size, you can also flat your strong draws as well instead of turning them into check raises.

He’s def not thinking sizing before he bets. He just knee jerk thinks he needs to be aggressive. And sticks ina. Raise. Saying he’s doing a certain size to set up a jam is giving this V too much credit.

That said. I appreciate your info of cr sizing. And is good to know

Pre should be 3bet to 300. Flop is a check, this board smacks of his range. Also his x/r is not tiny it's 3x your raise which is pretty standard at this stack depth. You dont know how much of a maniac he is because you admit to having never played with him before. I've been labeled a maniac just because I raised 2 hands in a row upon taking my seat.

i dont argue w your first two points. but just because i have never personally played w him doesnt mean i dont know him. and he is a well known maniac...

I think it's a fold on the flop for the sizing and SPRs. Deeper you can have some defends with AK/AQ/KQ or maybe for small x/r sizing. You probably don't want the Ad here. If he's a total psycho I could see a 3-bet OTF.

First he isn't a maniac if he will fold to aggression but is very LAG and likes playing a wide variety of hands. Second he didn't just see you re-bluff he saw that an opponent who likely knew you better believed you are AG enough that calling with 4th pair was worth doing and it that instance they were correct. You've been aggressive; he didn't fold. What does that tell you?

Once he raises flop he's most likely jamming turn. Fold flop - you cannot call this check raise profitably.

T83dd board doesn't play well as a 1/3rd flop bet - it has too many bad cards - you would want to bet 2/3rd pot if you wanted to bet.

I'm probably checking full range on this flop and will call any bet under $250 with this hand. If I had AA or KK or sets i'd probably check call and JJ/QQ or draws i'd check raise.

Turn is garbage, just fold - you beat random draws and you block the A high flush draw.