I posted this in the MSNL forum but seeing as it's 8 handed I thought some here may be able to relate as well...

This is a 5/5 game in the city. It is being played 8 handed at the time.

The HJ is a very loose and very aggressive player. He gets very creative in an attempt to win pots if he feels his opponent/s do not have lock hands. This attribute often makes him look (and be) very spewy but it also makes playing against him a royal pain as his bets and raises are not random, just sometimes mistimed. His swings are 2-4 buy-ins in either direction and they happen routinely (we will consider a buy-in 100bb even though you can buy-in for 200bb). He is very aware of his image.

The BTN is a solid winner at 1/2 and slightly less at 2/4 online so his understanding is there but too often he lacks the discipline needed to be successful playing live (gets board, FPS, spewy). Tonight he seems pretty controlled however. Him hovering around even may have something to do with that.

I am in the CO (seat selection for the win) and have been playing a solid game up to this point. I am not getting too crazy with being sandwiched between these guys. There are some weaker players a few seats down and I have been living off of them for the most part. Also, I have not really had much when either the HJ or BTN have been mixing it up. I have logged enough sessions with both players though where they know that I will get in there with them.

HJ: $2100
CO (me): $1900
BTN: $1800

Folded to the HJ who opens to $30. I call from the CO with T9. The BTN calls and the blinds fold.

($100) Flop comes Q86

HJ bets $75, I raise to $215, the BTN takes a moment and calls as does the HJ.

($645) Turn comes 3

The HJ takes a moment and checks.

Now I have many options here but my worry is my position in this hand. I am getting pinched here a lot regardless of my action I would think so I wonder if continuing is in my future and if so what is the best way to do so...

I'm not crazy about the idea of putting any more money in the pot at this point so I'd probably check and hope the button does as well. Given that he's played the hand passively so far, you're deep, and there's a crazy player who's not afraid to make moves I think there's a decent chance he'll check behind. Also, I'd probably 3bet or fold preflop.

yeah, im not excited about betting here, just check it and hope for a free card, obviously call a really small bet and fold otherwise

I also think checking is correct here. I am assuming the flop was rainbow since you didnt mention anything about it?

Excuse me, I thought the suits would transfer over but they didn't.

I have T9

Flop is Q86
Turn is 3

check and hope BTN checks back... I don't see how you can justify betting/getting yourself almost pot-committed given his flop action.

Bigger raise on flop ($300-$325?)

Check turn & hope for a free card... (although I call up to ~$325-$350 as the pot is $745 not $645)

Tom- The reason I didn't 3bet preflop was because I only was really hoping the BTN folds out for me to be happy with playing this hand. It's unlikely I win preflop with a raise vs the HJ and now I am just in a spot of trying to push a hand through instead of being able to make a big hand and stack him.

He is easier to play (more predictable) if he has the lead and this is the type of hand I want him to have the lead so I can bust him. No need to build a pot (even with position) if I am going to miss the flop a ton and get c/r a ton or floated or what have you. Rather play smaller ball and stack him when I hit. Though I realize this justification sounds weak/tight it is actully just the most profitable vs this player I feel. This is not to say I always take this line with this type hand in this spot. I was playing my opponent just as much as I was my hand.

Kneed- I was hoping to generate some discussion on my flop play and this is why I posted the hand in this fashion. When you say to raise more on the flop (fine), what are your contingency plans, ie. BTN reraises or BTN calls and HJ 3bets or BTN folds and HJ 3bets, etc...?

All- Obviously the turn isn't so boring or I would have posted the hand differently. before I get into the turn action though I was hoping to generate some discussion on what may be best for flop play, and why.

This is a very intriguing hand - there are good arguments for checking and calling (as others have advocated) and there's some rationale for betting out. I guess I have agree with the crowd that the standard line would be check, hoping for a check back but calling for one bet (if that option is left open to you).

The downside of C/C is that once you check, your hand looks a lot like AQ or KQ. I agree with Tom that button's flop play does not seem to indicate a big hand but if button does bet (say $400 or $500) HJ may decide to shove, to try to move you both off of a perceived one pair hand. In that case you'd have to decide whether to commit your stack on a draw without getting the right price, which I doubt you'd want to do.

So you might prefer to bet $350 or $400 or so yourself, continuing to represent a big hand; if they both fold that's great, but you'd expect that if one or both call and your draw comes in you'll get paid in at least one spot. Downside is obvious - if button or (less likely HJ) actually has a big hand or HJ decides to raise as a "move" you'll likely be in the same spot having to fold the nut draw.

It will be interesting to see what you decided.

Incidentally, I probably would have just called on the flop, but if I raised I'd want to make it at least $300, probably more like $330.

Tom-

3-bet or fold preflop is to simply get rid of the button? Could you expand on this if that is not the case? That surprised me a bit given our hand's ability to play well postflop.

As played, I am with the others and would not bet again. I dont think we want to play for stacks in the middle of these two and IMO one of them could easily have a set (most likely button with rainbow board). I would check and hope for a free river or if the BTN bets, hope for just a call from HJ so we get proper implied to continue with 8 clean outs.

if someone isnt trapping you you probably found a sick good game

Pertaining to the flop:

If you call, are you calling a raise from the BTN?
If you raise, are you folding to a BTN 3bet? How about a BTN call and a HJ c/r?
This deep should we worry about building a pot too early and should this affect our raise size?

Yeah, I was mainly thinking of getting rid of the button. Now that I think about it I think calling is fine too given how deep we are.

Why raise the flop? I think T9 would be the last hand i raise in this spot tbh. The hands you might stack eventually are prolly the only hands that will 3bet and force you to fold like QQ, 88 and 66. If you call you will let QJ stay in and it can never be a big mistake to just call but it could be painful to raise and face a reraise imo.

mr suspekt- I raised the flop in hopes of ridding the BTN. With his presence I felt handicapped in my abiity to play the hand without having to hit.

Also, I don't necessarily agree that the only hands I stack are playing back at me on the flop. He could easily catch a 2pair hand that fills my straight or just get creative and bluff off to me when I hit. As for, it never being a big mistake to just call, well this is true if I am playing strictly fit or fold poker moving forward. I wanted more options given stack depth and position on the HJ.

Well anyways, I did check the turn hoping to get checked through but the BTN didn't oblige. After a moments thought he bet s $425. The HJ makes a comment about how something smells funny and mucks.

Now what?

I think BTNs range is likely all 2pair+ hands. With this range, and with the disguised nature of your draw I think you can get him to stack on at least 40% of rivers you hit, thus making a flatcall best.

Bomb turn jam river. How does anyone ever have something that can call that line?

As played just fold turn. I don't think you would try to c/r something big here.

Edit: Actually, I guess BTN could theoretically just slowplay the entire way with a set, so maybe don't fire the third shell against BTN. If HJ were to call the turn bet I'm definitely shipping the river.

I think BTN shows up with a set here way often. He's facing a bet and a raise from an aggro guy and a good player he's not just gunna float that with nothing. He could have like KQ or AQ and maybe some type of straight draw but I think it's a set too often to ever bet this turn. I like how you played the hand against the HJ but unfortunately I think the BTN probably outflopped everyone