Villain ($600), UTG +1,seems pretty splashy, esp. pre-flop; haven't played against him for long, maybe an hour.
Hero ($600), MP, probably seen as tight, haven't played this level very much yet, so no one knows me. 62 YO white guy, for the record.

(I should add that I'm moving up from the 2/3 and still feeling my way around, it's clearly very different )

Villain opens $15, I make it $55, folds to villain who calls.

$120 to the fop, 8c6h2d.

Villain checks, I bet $60, V calls.

$240 to the turn = Jc

Board 862J no FD.

check /check.

River 3c

V checks, I bet $125 into $240, he thinks for a second and raises to $350.

I couldn't see him also checking the river if he had top pair; not after I checked back the turn. Ditto if he had TP or a set. It just didn't make sense. On the other hand, while a river check-raise is never a bluff at the 2/3 where I used to play, I've definitely seen it at the 5/5.

I suppose he could have 45 but I doubted it.

I called, it just didn't smell right.

Thoughts?

Getting check-raised is the downside of a "thin" value bet on the river. Would want to think about how many hands can actually pay you off for half pot before betting. 99 yes, but maybe a splashy player has some 8x and 77. Would probably rather bet the turn and check river.
As played, the 54s and bdfd got there, both of which are in villains range and both are concealed. I guess that's what makes it a good c/r candidate but I could also see some bluffs (esp with blockers) going this way too.

There was no flush draw, sorry if I wasn’t clear about that.

I'm confused about the flush draw. As related in the OP, there was one club on flop, one club on turn, and a 3rd club on the river. Is that not correct?

54 wouldn't even occur to me here. If he calls the whole way with nothing but an inside draw, and gets there, he's just getting my money.

With TT, I would probably continue to bet the turn, especially if the J adds the BDFD. We can't slow down and check / give up every time an over-card to our pocket pair appears on board.

If V has JJ-AA, we were already beat. But V would probably 4B pre with QQ+. If he has two over-cards, after opening UTG1 and calling your 3B, he's probably got more AK/AQ/KQ in his range than AJ/KJ/QJ, and we're heavily blocking JT.

We can still get value from all of V's un-paired over-cards and 77/99.

I don't know what to make of V going for a check-raise on the river after you check back turn. If he had Jx or better, I'd think he'd just bet, unless he's afraid of the flush coming in. But fear of being out-drawn would drive a lot of people to check-raise this turn.

In theory, when someone check-raises the river as a bluff, it should be a hand that has enough showdown value to win if the river checks through, but probably won't win in a showdown when the last player to act bets. I just don't know what his bluffs would be here, when the flush draw gets there on the river.

V having JJ makes some sense - not quite strong enough to 4B pre, but definitely strong enough to call your c-bet on flop, turns the miracle nuts, then oh-crap-the-flush-just-got-there river.

So he loves turn, and hates river. But then he looks at the board, thinks back through the hand, thinks it's unlikely you raised pre with AXcc, c-bet a flop that misses both your range and your actual hand, check turn when you pick up equity with the FD, and then only bet 1/2 pot when you get there.

He figures you're more likely to have an over-pair than a flush, and that you're more likely to bet if he checks than call if he bets, so he puts out the bear trap and waits for you to stick your foot in it.

Or maybe he just rivered a flush.

So...if this isn't JJ or a flush for value, then loose-splashy V might be getting out of line, possibly with some hand that doesn't make much sense on this runout.

Messed up my first post. Of course a flush draw changes everything. But there wasn't one. Fixed it here:



$120 to the fop, 8c6h2d.

Villain checks, I bet $60, V calls.

$240 to the turn = Js

Board 862J no FD.

check /check.

River 3c

If turn when x/x, he may have gotten there with 54.

If I'm properly rolled for the game and not concerned about the actual dollar value I think this is a call.

Your line looks a lot like AK AQ KQs trying to take the pot down after a 3bet and missed board cbet, pot control check through on turn, half pot "steal" bet on the river.

Villain doesn't recognize you, sees your table image of a 60 year old white guy new to the game, prob thinks you can't look him up light.

The only hands that make a ton of sense with PF raise, call 3bet, check/call flop, check/raise river would be 88 or JJ. Mayyybeee 66 raises UTG and calls a 3bet, but it's doubtful, don't think 22 does it really ever. 45s would be the only thing that makes sense, but it's got to be damn near the very bottom of opening/call 3bet OOP range.

QQ-AA 4bet PF, and JJ probably leads for value on the river.

Anyway, my $.02 ... Results?

I'm fine with the call and the hand. Seems pretty standard vs a splashy player unless you haven't seen him bluff or you have been station-y (comes down to reads, basically).

I bet/fold turn $150 and check back river.

AP I probably fold to his river c/r. They always have it.

I'd bet the turn almost always. Neither of you should have a j much. Your hand wants protection.

If you want to check the turn with some good hands, a jack might be better. I don't think you need to check this turn all that often.

Maybe something like AK can check here too, taking a free card but also picking off river bluffs sometimes.

Don't see much reason to check TT.

AP I think it's a fairly easy call vs most. Your hand looks week and he isn't repping much.