5/5

~$800 effective

V1 - loose passive OMC

V2 - loose Armenian or Iranian player, 40-50 years old, fish. Gave me advice one day: "You can't fold all the time, you need to fight for the pots."

A couple of limpers and V1 (CO) limps, Hero (BU) raises with Q T to $40, V2 (BB) calls, 1 limper calls, V1 calls.

Flop ($175) Q 6 2

x x x Hero bets $80, V1 calls, V2 calls.

Turn ($415) 9

x x Hero($680) - ??? checks

River ($415) 8

V2 bets $200, V1 folds, Hero - ???

Scenario 2)

V2 x, V1 bets $200, Hero - ???

Scenario 3)

x x, Hero - ?

Folding to bets from either V, and checking in scenario 3. We just want to get to showdown here, our hand is far too weak multi-way.

Hand 1: Usually a fold. If villain bluffs a lot after the turn checks around calling sometimes isn't bad.
Hand 2: Just fold. When OMC bets multiway it will be rare you have the best hand.
Hand 3: Check. All of the QX either have better kickers or they made two pair. The better hands are mostly going to call and the worse ones mostly fold so a bet is unlikely to make any money.

I think I would have barreled the turn, to avoid exactly this sort of scenario. If we barrel turn and either V donks this river, it's an easy fold. If they check to us again, we can just check back or go for thin value occasionally.

I might call V2's river bet if we've seen him over-bluff when action checked through on the turn, or if we've seen him bet super thin for value. Absent those observations, I'm okay folding here, and seeing him show a bluff. We'll get here with some stronger hands.

Likewise I might call the OMC's bet if we don't think he's chasing draws on the flop or calling with worse than top pair that might have improved to 2P+, but we think he's capable of bluffing here, when we check back turn and V2 checks to him on the river.

Otherwise, I think we should make a disciplined fold.

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Smaller on flop. I would fold to either villain betting half pot and check back if allowed.

Not strong enough to c-bet into 4 people imo, we check back our worst Qx a lot for pot control/deception

Hmmm. I think betting OTF is better if there's one fish in the hand. But if there are two OMC in the pot, then it's probably better to check the flop?

If I understand correctly, our overall strategy here(1 OMC+1 fish) is to get one street of value. So, we bet the flop and then go to showdown.


1 more question about that hand:

If there are two fish in the hand, we have more justification for a value bet on the turn?

Hard to barrel turn for a big size given the SPRs though. We either go small or we put ourselves in a spot where we are getting a really good price to call if they donk jam river.

Everything looks fine, including the check ott as long as you folded otr (if it was checked to you I would simply roll my hand over).

I don't mind the cbet in position with TP and a BDFD possibility but I would bet alil less.

True. I would have preferred a smaller c-bet on the flop. We can barrel small here, for around $200, and deny some equity. Either way we're planning to fold river if V donks, so barreling turn, even for a small size, is viable, if it prevents us from getting blown off our equity.

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Yeah, but are we folding the river because we think our opponent (OMC) only bets with strong hands? What eq do we lose then?

OMC is tight, so when we fold, we actually exploit him.

Depends on whether or not we think OMC is capable of bluffing river when the turn checks through. I guess it also depends on whether we think he's going to bet worse for value or just check call.

Having to answer this question is why I would have preferred to barrel turn.

My preferred line would have been c-bet 1/3 pot or a little less on flop, barrel 2/3 to full pot or even an over bet on turn, evaluate river, but probably check back most cards.

When you c-bet big, unless our opponents are inelastic when it comes to the bet size they'll call, the larger size should narrow and strengthen their continue range. But when you check back turn, you open the door for them to bluff with missed draws or bet worse for value. Our line looks more like AK than QX.

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