UTG limps and HJ limps. I have QT on button and I raise to $35. Blinds fold and UTG/HJ both call.

UTG sat down about an hour ago. He's fairly tight and hasn't played many hands. He had top pair and just checked/called. That's the only observation I have on him. He has $1K behind and I have him covered.

($115) T85 Both check to me and I bet $80. UTG calls and HJ folds

($275) Q UTG checks and I bet $220 and UTG Calls

($715) 5 UTG Checks, Hero?

Maybe just go for a size that makes Tx call. Spiked Qx calls anyway. 400 seems alright.

Small bet or x otf
Turn looks good
Riv bet a size that u hope AT calls…third?

I want to go big because "I put you on AK!", but we also block a large chunk of the calling range. Probably going with $450+

WP, I bet $300 here, and fold to a raise, unless we know he's capable of river bluff raising (which is generally very rare).

Grunch

7x is a huge raise. 5-6x makes me sense. However people are limping and calling you with big bets so I guess it's fine.

Rest of hand looks good. River he's not going to have a 5 here much unless your image is trash and no draws came in. If he's been slow playing 88 good for him. I think you should target JT and QXdd with a $300 bet.

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Welp against your typical tight/passive player we're in a pretty interesting spot. Because you've been betting big on all streets - I'd weight his range heavily towards J9 and big draws - sd+fd hands or pair+fd hands. It's interesting because betting doesn't actually accomplish a whole lot against most of those hands. Lots of worse hands fold, all of the better hands call. But you do have AQ, KQ, QJ, and Q9 in his range that can call. Whether or not he has all of the QJ and Q9 combos is unclear. Some tight players will fold that to an $80 bet on the flop, others won't. And I don't think you'll get called by Tx very often at all.

Betting small feels correct. $220.

I like river check. Villain should have lots of busted draws that give up, if we value bet we are targeting like kt/at/ and some rando qx and not expecting tight player to look us up with tx a lot anyways.

Strong players can also xr bluff which is what we are most concerned about.

UTG IS TIGHT PASSIVE but we raise pre why ???????

so I'm guessing you bet pot and got shown AQ diamonds to get counterfitted on river


fwiw I would check back river here, as stated by others nothing we beat is calling any size bet here

Ahm, no

Hero still beats AQ on the river. Only AA or KK (or a 5) improved to beat him.

ment AA

thats what I get for doing 2 things at once lol
the suited A was for another post I was reading

I can't imagine that villain would have AA (or KK) and play it passively on every single street. It certainly would be quite unusual.

if we block most of his calling range why are we betting $450 ?

Because we make most our money in live cash games by value betting, live players call too much, all the obvious draws bricked, and I want max value. Plus, if we bricked, wouldn't we want to bet an amount that might get villain to fold a T? "It looks bluffy" "I put you on AK" will be what you hear when they make a loose call because they don't think about where they are in their range, they just put you on a hand and go with it.

Checking back this spot is damn near criminal BTW.

I find this hand intresting as the desc of V
sure checking back vs random pop is one thing ; HOWEVER;

the only hands I could see V call our bet with that we beat ( as V desc tight/passive) would be AQ or A10 diamonds slim KQ dia
any other hands they call with beat us

we beat 3 combo's and lose to 16 combos'

AA KK QQ 10 10 88

seems criminal to me to torch good money away when we can check back and rake a nice pot
a tight player shouldn't show up on the river with a range as wide as discgolf states.

givin V is passive maybe small bet of $150 as we shouldn't have to worry about a passive player check/raising us
but only to feed our gambool as I think its -EV

BUT I still go back to why are we raising pre into a tight utg player with junk

What better hands does villain have here? Any stronger hand would've already raised, and I can't imagine they have any 5x in their range. Also not believing for a second this player is going to put is in a spot on the river by check raise bluffing. So a bet is not risky at all IMO

QTcc is not "junk" against a live field, especially when ISOing fish. I also don't necessarily trust OPs description of villain. His tightness is 'He had top pair and just checked/called.' which is basically meaningless given no context. Anyone who open limps is just another a passive fish in my eyes until they prove me otherwise.

Come on, how can you think all these 16 hands could be serious possibilities? Extremely unlikely that someone is going to play AA, KK, QQ, or a flopped set passively on every single street. Unless you know this guy is the most passive played you've ever seen, I would discount those 16 to 1.

With every draw missing, I’m just shoving here. There’s a risk we value-own ourself if Villain has like As5s, of course (or some bizarrely played monster), but we can’t let that influence our play (since we’re bet-calling in this spot anyway if he decides to CRAI, our hand is too strong).

If you shove on this board, it looks bluffy. Villain should honestly snap-call any size bet if he spiked the Queen on the turn, and if not, an All-In sizing makes him more likely to Hero-Call with the weaker portion of his range, since it polarizes *our* range. (EG: if I were Villain, I would call a shove with my 9h9c or JhTh-type hands.)

Derisive LOL to the guys in this thread saying “check it back.” If you’re not value betting in this spot, you’ve gotta find a new game to play, because OMG these are the spots where we make our profit.

passive players IE: sometimes we should become one of these BECAUSE Super aggro players will simply do all the betting for us.

As I said against random population of players at this level I agree with punisher HOWEVER as we ( and I get some have no intrest in ) devolepe
people/ hand reading skills then we can use that knowledge to increase profit and decrease losses.

go play in most rooms on a Mon, Tues, wed afternoon game before 4 pm over time you will encounter dozens of these tight/passive players who enjoy letting agro players dust off chips only to be put into thier stack and never seen again.

and yes I know its 5/5 , spend enough time in the early part of a room opening you see these players in $1-2 waiting for the bigger games to open for those that don't play higher levels.

the entire concept of posting player reads or lack of reads is to adjust accordingly

I don't mind going a bit bigger PF to 'see how serious UTG is' and to perhaps get HU against a more predictable V. Going 'standard' in a weak kicker spot may cost us more than just being able to fold out to a 3-bet.

I like the Flop bet as it could be anything .. protection against overs, flush draw, over pair, standard c-bet. I'm also still trying to get HU and don't want to offer HJ easier pot odds to call into with a potentially wider range.

I actually like the large bet on the Turn, perhaps going even more than pot. If this guy is a POW/CS then we want to maximize .. and there may still be a chance we are up against AA/KK where stacks might get involved. I think a large bet looks a bit bluffy, perhaps like we hit the Queen with a flush draw. (This may be a bit too much of 1/2 thinking, but ..)

River is a mixed bag, on one hand we may think this guy will call any size bet if he's calling at all .. and on the other we may think that we need to look a bit less comfortable now that the Board has paired. My impression is that a 5/5 Player is less impacted mentally by the Board pairing so we can treat it as a blank. What would we do with a big PF, big Flop and big Turn line of betting if we wanted value? I would say something smaller is in line .. so 3-350 works for me. I'm not too worried about a bluff raise, so pretty much any raise is a better hand somehow so I don't want to go more than 'necessary' to get a call. Obv we would be super disappointed if he shows down AQ here due to lost value. How many Tx hands can he call with when we bet 4 times? Not many .. so perhaps we do swing for the fences and go all-in for 700.

Looking at the 700 behind, are we really folding to a raise no matter our bet size? If we are thinking that way then we can go 250 and leave 450 on the table.

Interesting spot against a no-read passive Player .. GL

I don't understand what you meant in this sentence, but I would think that players that passive would be even more unlikely to find in a 5/5 game than in a 1/2.

Also, OP had only seen villain play a few hands. Playing top pair passively is not nearly the same as playing AA or a flopped set (on a wet board) passively.

Not value betting here is criminal. We can totally size in a way that makes QJ/AT/JT call us and not have him exploit us.

Like seriously, what’s he showing up with here that betas us? Sandbagged J9? He doesn’t have trip 5’s. He almost certainly doesn’t have AA/KK (but who knows, people play weird). 8’s full sometimes?

last week $2-5 game guy check/ called with quads on the river; said I knew he would fold his full house if I came over the top so why bother

Not value betting on the river with this runout is terrible.

It’s much more likely V has diamonds AQ, KQ, KJ, QJ, JT than AA, KK, or any set.

Tight passive players who limp AA/KK/QQ UTG will raise the open preflop. If they flop sets with 88/55 here, they are raising the flop. If they somehow actually do hat QQ+ OTF, they’re raising the flop - see literally any post from gg, the resident nit of this forum

Pot is 700, V is 700 behind. I could get behind a jam or a small bet, like 200-275. I do think a jam might be ambitious, given the description, but if you think he might think your some internets whipper-snapper who’s just trying to bully him, jam away