we have a house game that runs 2 times per week - FR usually 10 handed 5,5 with a $800 buy in. End of the night could have between $20-$25k on table. We recently aquired 2 new players that play very LAGy - will play any 2 cards @ almost any price. They will never fold if they hit any piece of the flop or any type of draw. There biggest leak is not folding hands & will pay off lightly. However, they seem to play pretty well post flop - will use there postition to put pressure on players. They will also float most flops & bet turn in position if they feel weakness. They also set off a chain-reaction where the entire table start calling with any 2 cards because people think they are getting "pot odds". As a result, $50 raises can see 4 - 5 callers. They have both had pretty good success lately & give me major problems if they have position on me. I don't think they will be winning players over the long hall..


My question is - what is the best way to play vs these types of players? Should I limp more vs raising when they have postion on me with k,q or small p/pair type hands? It seems like raising marginal hands & building pot out of postition is a bad idea. I obviously don't even attempt to bluff these maniacs & bet my made hands hard. I have had some huge nights when my cards where good but what do you do on the nights when they aren't? Thoughts appreciated..

play your big hands really weak against them... comes with some risk... like if you hit trips or two pair and there are draws out there let people see the draw for cheap... sometimes the turn will suck and you'll feel foolish, other times you'll get paid off by these overly laggy guys who can't put you on a big hand

interesting idea - I will try that out.. Just wondering, how would you play these guys pre-flop?

"They will never fold if they hit any piece of the flop or any type of draw"

"However, they seem to play pretty well post flop"

These sentences contradict each other...

yes they do contradict each other.. I meant to say the part of there game where I think they play well post flop is when they have postion & will use it to put pressure on me via floats & bluffs ect. jlocdog, I read your posts & always give good information - what adjustments would you make vs these types of players both pre & post flop?

dspade,

Thanks for the kind words.

The problem with this type of question is that it is just too generic and any advice I offer is something you probably already know. I will say that if you control your breathing, play position, recognize stack sizes as each hand is dealt (and your subsequent positions in relation to them), and be aware of your surroundings as the night progresses, you will do fine and the adjustments necessary for success for that game will be made as such.

Poker is all about recognition and recall as the game is being played. Each decision everyone makes at the table has repercussions, consequences, and elicits reactions (these can be both positive and negative). Being aware of the byproduct these actions create is where your adjustments come into play.

Often times I see players attack the 'mark' at the table hard and fast in the early going. The battle doesn't go there way and now they are tilting, shortstacked, off there game and they are now the 'mark'. They lose touch with the foundations on which makes them a good player and forget about implementing important concepts and fundamentals into their game. They lose their patience and once that goes it is the beginning of the end for them.

One thing about LAGgy live players, especially ones in the mold you describe who will chase with little and play many hands, is that often times they can never win enough. What I mean is that they will gamble when gambling is unnecessary. If they are stuck they will gamble to get unstuck and if they are ahead they want to get all the chips. So, if you maintain your composure, focus, and patience, you can often get them to make the big mistake that costs them dearly. It is tough to continue to make borderline decisions at a successful rate without control of oneself. These players are often out of control (even when they are winning).

So though it sounds generic and boring, I would focus on tightening up OOP and playing your position. Most mistakes players make in this level game is one of overplaying their hands OOP. And remember, just because you view a player to be a 'mark', does not mean that they play all of their hands poorly. From your description it sounds like they play in position very well, maximizing on the advantages they have, and their leaks may be OOP where they take a hand/draw a bit too far and pay off a bit too light or an extra bet they shouldn't have.

Overall, keeping your emotions in check AND keeping close tabs on your opponents frame of mind is of the utmost importance. If you lose track of either, you'll have an uphill battle. Remember there are always 3 simultaneous battles going on at the table and you need to be cognizant of each and how they interrelate to your play both now and moving forward. You vs the table. You vs your opponent/s. You vs yourself. If you lose touch with any of these then you will find yourself guessing at spots that should have more clarification. You will make fundamental errors where you normally know better. You will standardize your play and think in linear terms where adaptability and adjustments are needed. You will become the 'mark'.

Just keep breathing...

very well put... I will keep everything you said in mind.. I definatley relized something you posted - I very rarely "tilt" while playing, however - I think the leak I might have is getting a little frustrated (when card dead) with these guys & getting away from my tag game. I find myself calling them down too lightly(incorrectly) out of postition.. It's obviously easier to play these guys in postion & I will keep reminding myself this.. Thanks for your input

There are 3 major forms of tilt (with numerous sub-forms).

-Tilting when you lose a big hand.
-Tilting from boredom.
-Tilting from another persons actions or success.

Each of these can be found by themselves or intertwined. Each are just as deadly as the other. Each can be subtle or full of steam. And each will be the end of you if you don't recognize and control them.

(this is where the breathing comes into play)