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5/5 NL KJos UTG 5/5 NL KJos UTG

09-21-2021 , 06:32 PM
So we get worse to call and better to fold. Sounds like a genius move
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-21-2021 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
So we get worse to call and better to fold. Sounds like a genius move
Getting better to fold from UTG1 isn’t even that relevant, it’s just a potential side benefit.
What percentage of UTG1 LAG opening range is ahead of KJ on King-mid-low? We’re only beat by 25ish combos out of 150Ish combos in the preflop range. Just 16 combos of better Kx, 6 combos of AA, and 4 combos of sets.
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-22-2021 , 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium
It’s neither a value raise nor a bluff nor a protection bet.

We can get UTG1 to fold a better hand. UTG1 is gonna feel gross holding AA here. I’d definitely fold AA in the UTG1 spot to this action. Just think of the collective 2p2 reaction if UTG1 posted this hand, with 5way action going lead/raise, and we’re 1200 effective with one pair and two players left to act. 2p2 would say FOLD. So the raise functions as a bluff/protection bet against UTG1.

We are also ahead of SB who very likely has a flush draw. So the raise is for value against SB.

It’s a value protection bluff.
FPS
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-22-2021 , 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKon
FPS


Always
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-22-2021 , 07:19 AM
Even though we are the straddle. I am ambivalent about calling 4 way and I tend towards raising or folding.

Raising flop is a terrible idea, especially given V2's description. "She's aggressive, bets when she has something, checks calls or checks folds when she doesn't."

In general it's a good idea to know what hands people are playing when donking, but in a vacuum when someone donks 4way, he's indicating strength and you are only supposed to raise your superstrong hands. KJo is not such a hand.

Also, hero shouldn't pay anyone on A high turn, especially when it's a 3way pot.
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-22-2021 , 08:07 AM
In my games the small donk lead on a double suited board almost always represents a flush draw setting its price (most players in my local LLSNL game wouldn’t take this line or sizing with a set, for example). If that isn’t true in OP’s game, i.e., if the donking range is uncapped, then obv raise flop isn’t a good idea.

Last edited by ChaosInEquilibrium; 09-22-2021 at 08:12 AM.
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-22-2021 , 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric888666
Mandatory Straddle - I'm UTG with KJ. V1 UTG+1 raises to $35. V1 is a LAG both preflop and post flop putting lots of pressure. everyone folds to V2 SB. V2 is def loose. She's aggressive when she has something and tends to check/fold or check/call when she doesn't. V3 BB is a TAG and he calls. I call the $25.

I'm a TAG/Nit and have been playing this way for the past 5 hours

V2 has $500 behind. I have $1,200. V1 has me covered

($140) k47 SB leads out $50. BB folds. Hero?

Please help/let me know what is the best EV play in this situation.

Grunch

preface gripe: why bother referring to the SB and BB as V2 and V3 if you’re just going to refer to them as SB/BB later on?

We’re getting almost 5:1. Knowing V1 is effectively a spew monkey, we have to be mentally prepared to call down lots of run outs, but this can be highly profitable, even if the variance is also high. We’re also going to have the best position relative to SB/BB because we’ll get to see if they raise/call/fold cbets from V1. With that being said KJo is not the greatest hand.

I think the hand works as a call, raise, or fold.

I think the strongest case can be made for raising. We block KK and JJ, which would all be raising here if we had them and obv makes it harder for Vs to have KK, JJ, and AK. We could potentially get hands that dominate us to fold, like AJ, KQ, maybe even AQ. Additionally, some PPs will fold some % of the time. We have a hand that doesn’t play great multi-way and that we’re perfectly happy to win the 23bb pot right now.

AP OTF: is 1/3psb considered “aggressive” for SB? I wouldn’t consider that aggressive, but I’m unsure if any betting/raising action by SB would be connected with strength. If it is, we might be able to just fold here if our read is that good. If not I think we need to call. I think raising is spewy and I want to see what V1 does. V1 raising doesn’t necessary mean fold, because it’s dependent on what SB does and the sizing.
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-22-2021 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric888666
Mandatory Straddle - I'm UTG with KJ. V1 UTG+1 raises to $35. V1 is a LAG both preflop and post flop putting lots of pressure. everyone folds to V2 SB. V2 is def loose. She's aggressive when she has something and tends to check/fold or check/call when she doesn't. V3 BB is a TAG and he calls. I call the $25.

I'm a TAG/Nit and have been playing this way for the past 5 hours

V2 has $500 behind. I have $1,200. V1 has me covered

($140) k47 SB leads out $50. BB folds. Hero?

Please help/let me know what is the best EV play in this situation.
So are you saying your viewed as a tag/nit so you called oop with diapers here to do what exactly?
v2 is aggro when she has something and leads out into 3 people including the preflop raiser

fold pre fold flop

either that or your self read and v2 read are worthless
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-22-2021 , 09:38 PM
Call pre, call flop.

Raising flop is kinda interesting but I'm not a huge fan. Yeah you might get someone to fold KQ or something but that's a pretty small part of anyone's range. I don't see the need to bloat this pot.
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-23-2021 , 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman
So are you saying your viewed as a tag/nit so you called oop with diapers here to do what exactly?
v2 is aggro when she has something and leads out into 3 people including the preflop raiser

fold pre fold flop

either that or your self read and v2 read are worthless
While I disagree with this as any kind of standard play, or a hand that gets posted for advice, I do understand the play. Some of the biggest pots you'll ever win will be with hands played in a manner inconsistent with what your opponents have come to expect. It's basically the old advice of "play tight in a loose game" and "play loose in a tight game", with a twist.

If that were true though (and I've played hands like that), then it's because you know what you're doing and would only post it as an example of changing up your play - which either isn't the case here, or it's a brag post.
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote
09-23-2021 , 02:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric888666
Mandatory Straddle - I'm UTG with KJ. V1 UTG+1 raises to $35. V1 is a LAG both preflop and post flop putting lots of pressure. everyone folds to V2 SB. V2 is def loose. She's aggressive when she has something and tends to check/fold or check/call when she doesn't. V3 BB is a TAG and he calls. I call the $25.

I'm a TAG/Nit and have been playing this way for the past 5 hours

V2 has $500 behind. I have $1,200. V1 has me covered

($140) k47 SB leads out $50. BB folds. Hero?

Please help/let me know what is the best EV play in this situation.
Preflop you should refer to yourself as straddle not UTG if youre straddling lol, super confusing

Preflop is definitely -EV, that's a pure fold. The one upside to the hand is that the shallower you are the better a defend it is, but even though you are 50 bigs vs. one villain you are 120 vs. the PFR. Contrary to some other comments the more people that call the more you want to fold, the price you are getting isn't worth playing vs. 3 strong ranges that have you dominated. If this was a 2.5x raise I think it is much closer, vs. a 3.5x raise I wouldn't even think about it before mucking. Would go fold>3 bet>call.

On flop its definitely a spot in theory you want to virtually never raise because the PFR is uncapped so I would be calling flop with my continuing range, if you have a hand like 77 I would call then backraise

Exploitatively really depends on reads, only thing I will say is that I don't think anyone in their right mind does/should fold AA if you raise contrary to previous comments, but if you raise its more to charge the SB if you think they have a draw than to knock the PFR out of the pot
5/5 NL KJos UTG Quote

      
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