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5/5 NL with 88 in BB 5/5 NL with 88 in BB

09-28-2021 , 09:35 AM
V1 is a girl, she just sat down an hour ago, but she raised prelop/continued bet, than folded. I would put her as a LAG, but I have only been playing with her for an hour (for the first time in my life).

V2 is definetly a LAG and has been raising prelop about 1-2 times per orbit. He folded to the one time that I 3 bet him.

V1 in UTG +1 limps. V2 on the button makes it $25 to go. I 3-bet to $85 with 88 V1 calls and V2 folds.

($205) 652 I bet $130 and V raises to $350.

V has $450 left/behind and I have her covered.

Hero?
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-28-2021 , 10:26 AM
Good 3-bet pre.
Flop sizing is way too large. Bet 1/3 PSB.
V1 preflop range is gonna consist of pps and Broadway type hands.
Holding 88 is the worst possible hand here because you block the only draw 87s. Snap fold.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-28-2021 , 10:56 AM
How can you know V1 is a LAG based on an hour of play and one showdown where she cbet and then folded?
If you don’t have evidence she’s a LAG, better not to include that read in your post (nor in your thought process).
If you have evidence she’s a LAG you should include that evidence in your post.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-28-2021 , 12:11 PM
Chaos is right about assuming a woman is a LAG after a single hour. While I have seen women that play a LAG style, it is unusual. They usually play a weak/tight style, or fit-or-fold poker and are seldom sticky.

With the given description and the preflop action (hopping the 3-bet), I would give V's range as pocket pairs, say 22-JJ (maybe QQ, but would probably have raised KK+ herself). Also, since she seems like a medium-skilled player, she's probably putting you on AK, or KK+.

Now I do think preflop was played very well and while I do like a flop bet, I don't like the 2/3 pot size bet. I suppose you're trying to protect yourself from overcards hitting on the turn, or river, but you failed to ask what worse hands will call that bet? I would prefer a 1/3 PSB of $60, except that, it is less than the PFR of $85 - which right, or wrong, I don't generally like decreasing the bet size. So, $100 seems right, except I don't like that either.

The more I think about it, the more I would prefer a flop check. It conceals the strength of the hand, provides some pot control and allows the villain to tell me something about their hand. So, yea I changed my mind mid-stream, just like I do sometimes while playing.

As played, I'm showing my hand and folding. Complimenting her in an effort to get her to show her hand (yes, it works a lot).
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-28-2021 , 12:37 PM
It's very difficult to establish V1's limp/3b overcall range at her stack depth and unknown skill level. She has ~900 to start and tries to set-mine by overcalling an $85 bet?! Maybe....but you cannot automatically assume she's capped here with her overcall not even closing the preflop action.

GG will probably argue for a call/set-mine preflop here against unknowns and I have some sympathy for this strategy, though I think H played preflop in a standard TAG way. I also prefer a smaller flop c-bet.

The raise on the low rainbow flop speaks to strength. Without a better read, I can find an "exploit" fold here from the bottom of our range. I doubt we're good enough times to make this particular situation EV+, as all the monies may go in on the turn. But it would be interesting to run this through a solver bc I'm guessing it's very close on a solver.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-28-2021 , 03:12 PM
I'd usually size up my OOP 3b. Probably go $100-$130 here givent that we're about 900 effective. Going about 3x gives in position much better odds. Flatting pre is completely fine as well. If BTN isod from any position other than BTN, I'd probably lean towards flatting much more often. From what I've seen solvers do, these kinds of flops where blinds 3b, they take a more polar approach to c-betting where they check a good amount and mix in some larger sizings when betting like the one you used. In those sims, IP has more nutted hands than us (sets) but less equity since we've got all the premium PPs. Our premium pairs want to bet large to get value from worse pairs. Also, we stop overcards from realizing when we bluff and use a larger sizing.

In practice, you're up against a pf limper that cold called a 3b with another player left to act, so this person's obviously not playing well. Maybe she was planning on going for l/rr or something. I don't think she has many low pp in her range, but who knows. Overall, I think we're up against mostly 77-JJ, AK, AQ, and likely some suited broadways. (Maybe QQ is in there with really small sprinklings of KK+) When we blast the flop we hope to get those overcards to fold out immediately. When she re-raises, I'm sensing a PP that beats us wanting to get stacks in. Easy fold.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-28-2021 , 03:24 PM
Pre - if 3B, I'd go $105-110 from the BB. Calling most of the time.

Like flop sizing, deny equity to random overs and scs. We block 87s and our 3B pre/CBet flop looks like a big pair. Let it go to her resistance.

I recognize her limp/call pre looks weird, and in theory, hands like 22 should be folding. Nonetheless, no history with her.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-28-2021 , 05:35 PM
From the BB, just complete and let the lag hang himself on good boards for 88. If V1 limp calls youll have a firm grasp on her range before the flop action completes.

AP barf. You rarely/never have a set, and if you're actually betting QQ+ this big you're just going to stack yourself more often than not. It's even worse in this spot because there's a good chance you found her aborted limp-back raising range w your 3b and she gets to stack off a non A high board real well against you.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-28-2021 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium
How can you know V1 is a LAG based on an hour of play and one showdown where she cbet and then folded?
If you don’t have evidence she’s a LAG, better not to include that read in your post (nor in your thought process).
If you have evidence she’s a LAG you should include that evidence in your post.
I agree. I won't include that in my thought process from only witnessing her cbet/folding in an hour.

I do not have any other evidence she's a LAG.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-30-2021 , 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium
Good 3-bet pre.
Flop sizing is way too large. Bet 1/3 PSB.
V1 preflop range is gonna consist of pps and Broadway type hands.
Holding 88 is the worst possible hand here because you block the only draw 87s. Snap fold.
Agreed with all of this a lot except think call more +EV for this type of game than 3 bet, but either is fine
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
09-30-2021 , 01:56 PM
Pre is fine, I think you can split between 3betting and calling here.

Post is a little off the rails because no one should really ever have a limp->cold call 3bet range, so your ability to accurately judge what hands she would be doing this with will go a long way in helping you navigate this situation. I would expect something like 66-QQ and some AJs-AK and KQs thrown in there as well, but she could definitely show up with a bunch of suited connectors as well. In any case, I think if you're betting flop you should be betting much smaller, and as played this is probably a fold but bet/folding a hand like 88 on this flop feels rather exploitable.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote
10-01-2021 , 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric888666
V1 is a girl, she just sat down an hour ago, but she raised prelop/continued bet, than folded. I would put her as a LAG, but I have only been playing with her for an hour (for the first time in my life).

V2 is definetly a LAG and has been raising prelop about 1-2 times per orbit. He folded to the one time that I 3 bet him.

V1 in UTG +1 limps. V2 on the button makes it $25 to go. I 3-bet to $85 with 88 V1 calls and V2 folds.

($205) 652 I bet $130 and V raises to $350.

V has $450 left/behind and I have her covered.

Hero?

Stacks?

3 bet pre too small. You started hand with at least 180 bb and I assume BTN is around the same. This should be like $105 minimum on the three bet.

Fold. She’s raised to half her remaining stack, which is basically a committing amount. You have one of your worst overpairs and have bad equity against most everything. And you block her only natural bluffs.
5/5 NL with 88 in BB Quote

      
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