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5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn 5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn

09-20-2011 , 08:05 AM
UTG (1.5k): solid, but nitty player pre & post
UTG+2 (500): Fish, loose-aggro
Hero (Button, 750): Solid aggro image

UTG limps, UTG+2 raises as every hand to 25, 3 calls, hero calls with 67o on button, blinds fold, UTG calls.

Flop: Q67r

Everybody checks to Hero, who bets 90, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds

Turn: 4 (no possible fdraws)

UTG bets 240, UTG +2 folds, Hero: Ship, Call or Fold?

Had the hardest time putting UTG on a range. Assuming this is never a bluff, what part of villains valuerange do we beat?
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 08:12 AM
Wrong forum.
Go here
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...low-stakes-nl/

I'd bet a little bigger on the flop just because it's somewhat likely to get action after you bet when checked to and there are five other people in the pot. Setting up a two street allin is nice too.

You should go allin on the turn. Calling doesn't make sense with the way pot/stacks are. I think the hands that make sense for the described villain are AQ,66,77,67s. You hose that range, and I doubt he folds any of it since you could have pair+draw or just another AQ for him to chop with.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 09:31 AM
1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan1983
UTG (1.5k): Ship, Call or Fold?

Had the hardest time putting UTG on a range. Assuming this is never a bluff, what part of villains valuerange do we beat?
1)call

2) probably nothing, its why you call.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 11:06 AM
I'm really not too excited about getting into ahuge pot with a decentn nit here. I think folding is a definite option, seeing that our hand is basically the same strength as AQ (its all we can really beat). sick spot. Folding or shoving obviously and I am torn between which is best here. More descriptors would help, such as past lines from this villain.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 11:17 AM
Sigh, don't limp 67o otb if you're not willing to stack off on this type of board.
What are you losing to? He raises pre with QQ. Only draw that got there OTT was 35 and 58 which if he's nitty he's not going to have. He's not going to have Q6, Q7,Q4. He isn't calling the flop bet with 44. You're losing to 66 and 77 which is greatly discounted because you have 67o ldo.
I feel like this is AQ KQ and maybe even QJ sometimes. If he's a nit that means he probably isn't playing too many hands, so he is going to overvalue TP. Especially if he see's you as "aggro".

Sucks when he turns over 66 or 77 but like I said can't be playing 67o pre if you're not willing to stack here!

Last edited by LolPony; 09-20-2011 at 11:24 AM.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan1983
UTG (1.5k): solid, but nitty player pre & post
UTG+2 (500): Fish, loose-aggro
Hero (Button, 750): Solid aggro image

UTG limps, UTG+2 raises as every hand to 25, 3 calls, hero calls with 67o on button, blinds fold, UTG calls.

Flop: Q67r

Everybody checks to Hero, who bets 90, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds

Turn: 4 (no possible fdraws)

UTG bets 240, UTG +2 folds, Hero: Ship, Call or Fold?

Had the hardest time putting UTG on a range. Assuming this is never a bluff, what part of villains valuerange do we beat?
pretty gross spot considering action. I think UTG can be holding AQ/KQ here a decent percentage. I'm going to discount 66/77 entirely. I guess he has 58 too.

Guess we just go broke here. I think I would.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 11:25 AM
UTG just lead out for a 2/3 pot sized bet it seems. Tight players don't often open limp 58 utg. It looks like he could be trying to move you off of a weak Qx hand to me as hands like 88-JJ are well in his range. 44 and 55 fold on flop.

66-77 are the only two hands I'm worried about, since he could cc flop hoping to induce a spaz from utg+2 aggro fish. But you have one of each of these cards, their likelihood is greatly diminished.

I jam.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 11:36 AM
If he truly is considered a nit, then he only reps 66 or 77. Nothing else makes sense, and you have blockers to those. He most likely has AQ, KQ, or QJ.

I'm not sure if shoving works here because if he does have Qx he will most likely fold if you shove on him, unless your image is awful. I flat here with the intention of calling any river bet, and if he checks, then I try to make a bet that he can still call with Qx.

There just aren't any draws that a nit could conceivably have, and his continuing range once we shove has us crushed.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abgtr
pretty gross spot considering action. I think UTG can be holding AQ/KQ here a decent percentage. I'm going to discount 66/77 entirely. I guess he has 58 too.

Guess we just go broke here. I think I would.
I completely disagree. I don't think AQ is in his l/c range tmuch, and KQ is very unlikely as well. I think if he somehow has those hands he c/c turn, not leads into 3 players.

I think 66/77 make perfect sense. It's a dry ennough board that a guy like him would be trapping on a lot. They are also consistent with l/c. I don't think a tight player has 85 here almost ever. 44 is unlikely as well. 67 is possible. I think he is bluffing almost never.

So my range for him is 66/77/67. If he has 67, it's more likely that he started with 67s than with 67o, so you are actually either way behind his range or it's close depending on the suits of the 6s and the 7s that are out there. I also think that he is more likely to take this line with 66/77 than 67s, and he more frequently has 66/77 in his l/c range than 67s.

I think this is close but it's a fold IMO
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-20-2011 , 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsy
So my range for him is 66/77/67.

I think this is close but it's a fold IMO
First off, those two sentences do not compute. If that's his range is, then this is the easiest of easy folds.

2nd, do you realize how difficult it is for him to have any one of those hands? That he would have to have the last combo of 66, last combo of 77, and one of the 4 remaining 67 combos. Or one of the two 67s combos. Very very tough man.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote
09-21-2011 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abgtr
First off, those two sentences do not compute. If that's his range is, then this is the easiest of easy folds.

2nd, do you realize how difficult it is for him to have any one of those hands? That he would have to have the last combo of 66, last combo of 77, and one of the 4 remaining 67 combos. Or one of the two 67s combos. Very very tough man.
Those statements compute very easily. If a) he plays 67s but not 67o b) his range is 66/77/67, then We are beat by 2 combos and beat around 2 combos depending on the suits and depending on whether he always plays 2pr that way or not. So we are behind his value range, but if we assign even a small bluffing/semibluffing frequency this is close between a fold and a call

On your second point, I do realize how narrow the range is. I am not 100% sure I am right, but I do think that sometimes assigning narrow ranges is appropriate. I definitely think it's better to err on that side than to somehow assume he limp/called AQ to justify a call, which would be a very unusual line to take with that hand preflop.
5-5 live: flopped 2 pair facing strong lead on turn Quote

      
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