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5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ 5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ

04-27-2024 , 10:37 AM
5/5 in California, effective stack ~$1300

UTG (unknown but seems like a regular) raises to 20, MP (tricky but not a dumb recreational player, he seems like a guy who plays very aggressively but slows down aggression when he feels you are strong. I would say a typical Californian recreational player) calls.

I raise from the SB with Q Q to 120, UTG folds, MP calls.

Flop ($165): 6 4 3

What is my plan on that type of board against these types of opponents? I'm kind of confused because we are deep, and if I start betting, this guy might recognize I'm strong since I raised preflop and have a tight image. I usually feel very uncomfortable in these kinds of situations with a tight image against a tricky but not dumb recreational player. If I start building a big pot now, my hand is kinda face up to him, and I can put myself in a very tough spot.
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 10:46 AM
Depending how loose he is he probably has all the sets and some stuff like 76s maybe, but he also has a lot of 77-TT, maybe JJ, if he doesnt 3bet it preflop, plus random overcards, maybe some Axs stuff too.

I think I'd go with 1/3ish here, maybe 60.
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 10:58 AM
Start with a 1/3-2/3 pot size and continue on most turns except a 2,5,7

Any decent reg will turn A5, A4, A3, 54, 65 suited into a bluff at some point (all those hands should call this deep pre), but most people won't, so you can probably fold if you get raised against a lot of weaker players assuming they aren't a maniac over valuing a hand like TT.
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 11:26 AM
Before we discuss more,realize the pot is $260 less rake, if you had raised to $120 and were called. As such the spr is not horrible for an overpair, provided the turn does not suck
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04-27-2024 , 11:27 AM
I'd bet 120. Small bet doesn't seem good.
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 11:45 AM
Yes, my bad, the flop was $260. So I bet $120 here, and he calls. What should I do on the later streets?

For example, on the turn, let's say a T comes, and the pot size is $500 with $1060 effective. I bet $250, and he calls.

Then, on the river, let's say a 9 comes, and the pot is $1000 with $810 effective. Should I shove the rest or just go for check/fold or check/call?"
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
I'd bet 120. Small bet doesn't seem good.
As usual, Mr. Spyu is spot on.
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 02:51 PM
I tend to go bigger on a blank turn to make life difficult for the pair+draw hands.

As you played it, the river seems like a blank so chk/call or shove could work, depending on the player tendency
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04-27-2024 , 03:08 PM
Shoot I didnt math this correct, thank you Mr. Spy. I was just going by OPs pot size vs stack size.

I agree w 120 bet size now
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellezza
this guy might recognize I'm strongt.
I'd start with realizing that you're not. Your opponents have all of the straights, sets and 2p here. You're definitely not strong.
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 009285832
I'd start with realizing that you're not. Your opponents have all of the straights, sets and 2p here. You're definitely not strong.
Yes, that's my main point. If I think I'm not strong here, then going for 3 streets of value and investing 250bb on that type of board with QQ is not overvalue? Like I mentioned before, my opponent is a recreational player, but the kind of guy who understands some things and knows my image is tight. So in his eyes, I'm strong here when I decide to invest $1300 after 2 hours of sitting and playing 0 hands.
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-27-2024 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellezza

For example, on the turn, let's say a T comes, and the pot size is $500 with $1060 effective. I bet $250, and he calls.
Why not x/c a Td turn?
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-28-2024 , 03:09 AM
Thank you for the feedback. I've analyzed this hand and come to the following conclusions.

Flop $260 Flop : 6 4 3
I always bet. The optimal size is around $100, as I want him to call with all the overcards in his range, like KQ, QJ, Ax.

Turn $500 T
I have two options. Against a very aggressive player, if I have certain notes on him indicating he's capable of betting with 76, A4, or simply floating and betting with overcards, I play check-call and reevaluate the situation on the river.

Option 2. And this is the most obvious option against most recreational players: a bet of around $200-250. My goal is to target gutshots, pair+gutshot hands, like Tx hands that hit. For example, QT, AT, pairs 77-99, JJ. The size should be such as to keep these hands in.

River 9 $1000

I can play check/fold. Since there are no bluffing hands in his range that completely missed the board. If you think about it, it's only hands like 55, A5. Everything else has some pair, and recreational players are more inclined to go to showdown with such hands and check. Essentially, I need to see all-ins from him with hands like Tx and bluffs like 76x, 54x to make check-calling profitable.

I can bet $300 and fold to his all-in. Probably best?
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-28-2024 , 11:54 AM
Think I'd just bet 1/3 pot on flop, to target every PP and SC combo that just flat called pre, and all his draws, whatever they may be. We're OOP with a big over-pair to the board. We want to bet for value and protection. If he's flopped 2P+, he may want to raise and build the pot, even at the risk of playing his hand face-up.

Other than bringing in the BDFD, the Td on turn is just a brick. V shouldn't have TT in his range very often. Think I'd over-bet the turn, for like 1.2x-1.5x. V's going to have a hard time knowing what to do with 2P+.

If we over-bet turn, I think I'm over-betting pot on the river when the diamond draw bricks out. If he had 2P+ on the flop or turn, I think we'd have heard from him by now. The problem I have with hero's smaller turn bet is that it lets V get to the river with all sorts of weird hands that won't be in V's range if we were to bet larger.

Like, V could get here with T9, which makes some sense, or 99, or something really dumb like 96s.

If we bet small, he could raise for value with a lot of hands that might have folded to a larger turn bet, or he could turn something like A5dd or J8dd into a bluff. I don't like betting $300 into $1k and auto-folding to a raise, if we've taken a fairly weak line prior to the river, by betting 1/2 pot, 1/2 pot, 30% pot.

I'd prefer going 1/3 pot, 2/3-1.5x pot, 2/3 pot-jam river.
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04-28-2024 , 08:09 PM
I'm pretty certain 1/3 pot is not good here.
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04-30-2024 , 02:56 PM
have to lead out here minimum $100 if you make it too cheap and a K or A show up what now? You check and he bets or you bet the tuen and get raised.. Yeah I would say at very least $100 but more like $120ish depending if I got a lock read on players I might even just go pot and let them chase me.
5/5 deep in 3b pot with QQ Quote
04-30-2024 , 03:06 PM
First and foremost since you know him so well does he also know you and what does he think about your 3bet range? If you don't 3bet a lot or wide at all and he backs down when he senses strength, you're hand looks like it could easily be aces or kings but he's still putting in a big raise otf.

If you call, it won't be too smart to fold when he jams the turn so you have to decide if your hand is worth 500 BB's (over pairs very rarely are).

One of the biggest mistakes players make while playing deep is overplaying a medium strength hand.
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