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5/5 A9s on Ax. vs donk bet 5/5 A9s on Ax. vs donk bet

05-20-2024 , 09:06 AM
5/5
~$500 effective

V1 - Unknown older man, Jewish, tends to play loose and see more flops. Talks a lot with two other Jewish players who are known fish.

V2 - Unknown.

limp limp(V1) Hero(BU) A9 raises to $40(standard open 20), BB(V2) calls, both limpers call

Flop($160) A T 4

BB x, limper x, V1 bets $30, Hero calls, BB calls, limper folds

Turn($250) 8

V2 x, V1 bets 30$, Hero calls, V2 calls

River($340) 2

V2 x, V1 bets $40, Hero calls

Could the hand have been played differently?
5/5 A9s on Ax. vs donk bet Quote
05-20-2024 , 09:27 AM
I probably raise flop to 75.

If I didn't raise the flop, I would raise the turn to 155.
5/5 A9s on Ax. vs donk bet Quote
05-20-2024 , 12:11 PM
What type of Jew is he? I think the hand is played fine vs an Ashkenazi, but against Sephardic Jews you need to be raising the Turn.
5/5 A9s on Ax. vs donk bet Quote
05-22-2024 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davomalvolio
What type of Jew is he? I think the hand is played fine vs an Ashkenazi, but against Sephardic Jews you need to be raising the Turn.
Liked this post for its obvious sarcasm.

Well played, Davo. Well. Played.
5/5 A9s on Ax. vs donk bet Quote
05-22-2024 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellezza
5/5
~$500 effective

V1 - Unknown older man, Jewish, tends to play loose and see more flops. Talks a lot with two other Jewish players who are known fish.

V2 - Unknown.

limp limp(V1) Hero(BU) A9 raises to $40(standard open 20), BB(V2) calls, both limpers call

Flop($160) A T 4

BB x, limper x, V1 bets $30, Hero calls, BB calls, limper folds

Turn($250) 8

V2 x, V1 bets 30$, Hero calls, V2 calls

River($340) 2

V2 x, V1 bets $40, Hero calls

Could the hand have been played differently?
Yes, the hand could have been played differently.

Why are we raising to $40 if the standard open is $20? What do you think V is limp-calling with, when you open that large? I don't hate opening this hand, but I could also see just over-limping with it, against loose-passive V's who I suspect like to trap with bigger aces.

V1's flop donk is fishy AF, ordinarily, but I immediately suspect he's got a good ace and is either taking us to value-town, or even better, hoping we'll raise.

On the one hand, if V does have a better hand, playing this as a call on every street wins V the minimum, which means we lose the minimum, but also means we win the minimum, if we win. It also lets V realize all his equity for a price he's setting for us.

On the other hand, I could see raising flop to $90. If he 3B's, I'm just done with it, and fold. If he flat calls, and donks turn again, I'm just done with it, and fold. If he flats our flop raise, and checks in flow on turn, we're going to want to bet when that BDFD / BDSD appears, but I still suspect our V is just letting the donkey do the pulling instead of him doing the pushing, so I kind of want to just check back, and see what he does on the river.

If he bets the river, I guess we call, and end up losing more than we would have if we'd just called down the whole way. But if he checks to us on the river, I think we can just check back, and be pretty sure we'll usually have the best hand, but not always. If that's how this were to play out, we'd lose less raising flop and checking back turn and river.

Just because he's playing loose and chatting up the other fish doesn't mean he won't show up with something that beats A9 here. We lose to AK, AQ, AJ, AT, A8, A4, and A2. I think he could have all those in his range, and I'm not expecting him to show up and start donking out with A7, A6, A5 or A3. Not to mention all the sets or weird 2P he might turn over.

When we're playing loose-passive V's like this, we need to get to showdown with better than TP, weak kicker, or we need to be willing to turn our hand into a bluff with a BIG over-bet on the turn. If we jam turn, he's probably not calling with worse than top 2.

Against these types of V's, I want to show up with the premium aces, or something that will have its own lane when the pot goes multi-way. Imagine jamming the river with 53hh and V snapping with AK.

As an aside, regarding your observation that V is Jewish - I'm assuming something about his appearance made it obvious that he's part of a close-knit group. There's a human tendency for members of close-knit groups to be view outsiders with a degree of disdain, which usually includes the assumption that outsiders are generally dumb.

In game, when I think my opponent is underestimating me, because of my race, or age, or for whatever reason, I assume they believe I'm dumb, and that I will just pay them off when they take an absurdly obvious value line.

When we see them take these loose-passive lines pre, and then a value-town line post, the counter is to either over-fold, or liberally raise for value or as a bluff, not call them down with hands that are almost always going to be second-best when they bet three streets for value, even for a smaller sizing.
5/5 A9s on Ax. vs donk bet Quote

      
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