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5/5 3-bet hand 5/5 3-bet hand

08-02-2023 , 02:18 AM
5/5 with UTG straddle on $1200 effective. I open 76dd to $30 from UTG+1. Loose mp player calls.

UTG makes it $135. I call and MP folds.

Flop($305): JJ7dxx.
UTG bets $70. We call.

Turn($435): 8x UTG checks. We check.

River($435):4x UTG bets $425. We?

Villain is young Asian with backpack. Only joined the table about 20 min. Not much read on him.

What hands do we call here with?

Last edited by sabloid; 08-02-2023 at 02:43 AM.
5/5 3-bet hand Quote
08-02-2023 , 02:37 AM
Is the river a A, K, Q that hits UTGs range? What was your thinking on calling flop? I'd likely stab at the pot with say $220 on turn representing a J.
5/5 3-bet hand Quote
08-02-2023 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear1955
Is the river a A, K, Q that hits UTGs range? What was your thinking on calling flop? I'd likely stab at the pot with say $220 on turn representing a J.
Sorry. Corrected it. It was a 4x.
5/5 3-bet hand Quote
08-02-2023 , 06:08 AM
Straddle squeeze range vs EP open should be very tight. Some might argue that the initial open is too loose - I won't - but I cheerfully fold to the squeeze. Your hand does have one virtue which is that it's not easily dominated, I might potentially prefer to call this to, say, KTs or QTs but you're not in a great place and I'd throw it away. Presumably you're not continuing with 100% of your opening range?

River you unblock both value and bluffs. I would rather block some value, so calling a hand like QQ would be better. People play multiway from the blinds/straddle in different ways so it's a little tricky to range but I'd be surprised if you see much Jx here at all other than two combos of AJs. For the most part you are probably looking at value hands of AA-JJ, and bluffs of AK. Assuming he always bluffs AK then I think you have a price to call, easy to overbluff this line
5/5 3-bet hand Quote
08-02-2023 , 06:42 AM
I'd call because it's easier to bluff too often than the other way around, but it's close and I don't think it matters too much. Opening pre however is quite bad, it should be around b/e without a straddle and for a smaller sizing. Now you use 3x, have an extra blind to get through, and probably a handful of loose players like MP, whose flats really hurt these hands' EV. You probably have some skill edge, but I doubt it's enough. You will end up too often mw oop with stuff like 2nd pair no kicker, or just 7 hi to win any money. Calling the small squeeze is more ok once you get in this spot, but it's also not a great spot being sandwiched.
5/5 3-bet hand Quote
08-02-2023 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear1955
Is the river a A, K, Q that hits UTGs range? What was your thinking on calling flop? I'd likely stab at the pot with say $220 on turn representing a J.
He is not going to fold an overpair here and we have showdown value. This is a very over stabbed spot. No reason to start turning our hand into a bluff. We are ahead of a lot of hands like A high, K high.

We should be floating the flop a lot when he bets so small with A high, K high, even QTs, even 65s with a backdoor flush draw. We have so many of these hands to start bluffing on the turn and we can check our best ace highs.

Small flop sizing and the fact that he is younger makes it seem that villain is at least a little studied, which overall makes me put a little stock into his ability to bluff. His preflop sizing is too small though with the cold caller, but I don't think that is a huge factor in my decision making process.

You should trap a fair amount on the turn. In theory you can mix call/fold here about 50/50. I lean towards call, but it's close. If you always call with this type of hand you're going to be exploitable and I would be cautious around people at the table using that information as they may label you a calling station and go thin for value. If you always fold this hand you are also going to be exploitable too though, so I do feel like mixing makes sense.
5/5 3-bet hand Quote
08-02-2023 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlark
He is not going to fold an overpair here and we have showdown value. This is a very over stabbed spot. No reason to start turning our hand into a bluff. We are ahead of a lot of hands like A high, K high.

We should be floating the flop a lot when he bets so small with A high, K high, even QTs, even 65s with a backdoor flush draw. We have so many of these hands to start bluffing on the turn and we can check our best ace highs.

Small flop sizing and the fact that he is younger makes it seem that villain is at least a little studied, which overall makes me put a little stock into his ability to bluff. His preflop sizing is too small though with the cold caller, but I don't think that is a huge factor in my decision making process.

You should trap a fair amount on the turn. In theory you can mix call/fold here about 50/50. I lean towards call, but it's close. If you always call with this type of hand you're going to be exploitable and I would be cautious around people at the table using that information as they may label you a calling station and go thin for value. If you always fold this hand you are also going to be exploitable too though, so I do feel like mixing makes sense.
I agree he likely will not fold hands that beat us but we find that out for roughly half the bet OP faced in the hand. I'm not so much doing it to remove hands that beat us but to remove the equity from two over cards and establish the price for the hand to showdown.
5/5 3-bet hand Quote
08-02-2023 , 04:07 PM
I think it's a fold.

Your made hands are a pair (2p with the jacks) almost all of the time. Could be a 7, 89 or a PP.

He played cautiously because you could have had a jack, 77, 88 or 9T but those are all quite unlikely now.

Now it's time for him to get value with his larger pair. People don't like to fold pairs on a board like this. Meaning, a paired board of this texture. You can also rule out him having a jack or a boat. AK, AQ, KQ all whiffed.

Basically, his line is a way to get good value from lower pairs, but to avoid either getting bluffed or having to pay off too much when he's beat.

I think people call a lot in your spot, so people bluff less and value bet more in his spot. If they have AK or AQ, they will just pray you check back KQ or QT and they win here once a year. Maybe he could consider check/hero call with ace high once in a while based on a read or something.
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08-02-2023 , 11:10 PM
Fold pre at both opportunities. This is quite bad honestly.
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08-03-2023 , 03:53 AM
I think theory perspective probably says it's a fold, but I would guess it's close. Our 89s, 99 and TT are better calls as they block T9. We'll have partials of trips and QQ to call as well.

Practically, I think I would call this spot in most 5/5 games against a seemingly above average/capable player. I think the river sizing is actually theoretically sound (since we're capped and villain has many available bluffs), but at live 5/5, I think full pot size here is bluffy. Usually KK/AA tend to bet smaller (like 2/3), trying to get called by a hand like 99. It's also a spot that's easy to overbluff if villain is off-suited enough in his squeeze range pre.
5/5 3-bet hand Quote
08-03-2023 , 03:59 AM
Preflop, you’re way behind the UTG’s 3bet range, so fold. The pot odds are good enough to call the flop. I would consider bet/fold on the turn after V’s weak flop bet and check, which suggest an Ax or Kx. Without a read (someone’s ethnicity is not a read), calling pot-sized bets on the river with a marginal hand is a spew. Bluff- raising the river here without a read is even worse. I know everyone hates maxims on the forum now, but they check you bet, they bet you fold seems relevant here.
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08-03-2023 , 04:34 AM
fold pre, probably stab turn, put all of your money in now
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