Home game. I know all players and all players know me. I have an aggressive image like always. V is an action player throws money around with little regard for overall strategy. Capable of floats and bluffs.

5-10, 20 straddle on button 1.8k effective

Action starts on SB, blinds fold. Folds to me in MP. I raise to $65 with pocket 7s. Action guy calls on button straddle. I don’t think he’s folding any hand here closing the action.

Flop $145 976r

Middle set.

I check he bets 80, I xr to 300 he calls

Turn $745 Tx

Hero???

I have 1450ish behind. Obviously terrible card for my hand but I do have some straights that play this way. Check seems weak and I have a very strong hand. Betting > half pot seems like an overplay. SPR is less than 2 and I can’t really fold against this action guy if I get shoved on after I bet turn.

Such an awkward spot that happens when you check raise a value hand and get a caller IP and an obvious draw gets there that both of us could have as played.

Thoughts?


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Eh, I guess bet/call and chase 10 outs if you get shipped on. You’re still getting value from 2pairs or 66, conceivably.

Check/raise, check is not a strong or viable line to take vs competent opponents

How much are you betting? As you said, there’s no bet/fold option really…


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550-600, which is what I’d do with an 8

I'd check.
After V called you CR, I expect him to check back most of his value hands, sometimes even 8X, and at the same time I have troubles finding natural bluffs in his range.

By the way, I'd mostly check also with an 8: on this board it is very unlikely to get more than 2 streets of value anyway.

So are you checking turn and folding? Calling and donking if board pairs?

I like a check call. Then you can go for some things value on river if it goes check check (or thick value if board pairs).

Check call turn, check evaluate river. Ramming your head into a wall (the 1 card straight) is not productive and it’s not like you’re stacking non straights if you bet.

I'd check/call a smallish bet, which gives about direct odds to chase our 10 outs, and mostly fold to a bigger bet.
Again, V should not bet this turn that often, especially without an 8, imo.

If we get to the river and board pairs, yes, I'm probably donking; otherwise check/evaluate.

The problem with check calling a large bet is that we put too much of our stack in to fold the river most of the time unimproved. Check folding means we’re check folding 100% of our range except straights when this T comes… feels extremely exploitable to aware opponents who can bluff me liberally when I xr then x.

I only have direct odds to call a bet of 33% or less if we assume V is only betting turn with a straight. There are implied odds to call a larger bet and then donk river if a board pairs.

Such a frustrating spot out of position. The overall strategy part of my brain intuitively hates the check raise check line but I think in this case the check raise check call line is probably the right line.

As played, I bet $350, V ships for 1100 more, and I don’t think I can fold. Thoughts as played?

I think my smallish turn bet looks weak after I xr 300 but there aren’t really any bluffs left except random airballs or a hand like 2pair turned into a bluff. The problem is I’ve seen this V overplay worse hands on boards like this frequently and can’t rule out 2pair.


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Preflop with straddle on, I'm inclined to limp since V ain't folding ATC.

Flop: V has more 8x, we have more 99 and 77. I like the xr, but I think we are compressing his range to combos (like T9), two pair and 8x.

Turn: H has taken a polar line all the way. Can we switch gears and make a credible blocker bet here? We are probably only making a blocker bet with the nuts. Another polar bet seems weird, as we would likely check and try to get to showdown with our overpairs here.

It's a tough spot. But I prefer a check/call here repping overpair. I think V would make a value bet with his two pair and nuts. This would give us the right IO if we're behind. I don't think V has polar sizing after our huge flop xr since he wants to keep in our overpairs and air.

I think this is probably right. Regarding pre, I just never limp and will not be adding a limping range. If v isn’t folding atc then I definitely want to raise every hand that I’m vpip’ing for straight value.


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Sorry MogFish, I posted before reading your update. I prefer x/c to blocker bet as I stated above, but I understand your reasoning.

AP I cannot find a fold getting over 2-1 when I think we're ahead half the time. I don't understand why he overbets his 8x when he wants us to call. I feel like he's exploiting his positional advantage and range advantage, as he should. Maybe he's very clever and thinks you can level yourself into a call.

He should really only jam his two pair, fearing H has overpair and could counterfeit river if board pairs or 8 hits.

I had a very similar situation a few years ago that I ended up folding ott but it was multi-way to the flop and thus harder to range the field.

I’m gonna run this hand through a solver and give V 90% of hands pre. See what happens. Will update later with solver output.


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u could block but i think c/c c/c is going to be the best line. i think turn is going to be played best as a range check and i dont see a reason to deviate from that vs a guy whos way too loose and capable of blasting off

If villain was dealt an 8 he usually gets here this way. So now we’re gonna pour in 1400 with a bluff catcher? Jam is the only sizing available to V due to our block bet, it’s hardly a large sizing.

It's not quite a bluff catcher because it still beats value, plus it has 10 boat outs. But yeah, it's an annoying spot with a ton of money in the pot already. What are you gonna do, just fold?

Vs abc reg I would call a small bet and fold to a large bet. Vs described villain I would call most sizings and evaluate on river blanks.

I think you guys are underestimating how often he has an 8.

Solver output for turn spot.

The solver checks flop at 77% and does check raise 77 on the flop at greater than 90% frequency, so call that 100%.

Interestingly, on the turn, when given the ability to check, b33, or b66 on the turn after check raising and seeing the Ts, the solver checks 100% of range. Solver is check calling with 77 to a b67 at 100% along with all straights, sets, t9s and 97s.

Seems kind of obvious in hindsight. Live and learn I suppose.

This

If he overbluffs than why are we taking that option away?

AP im folding to his turn raise as this is always a straight given this action. We need like 30% but only have 20% equity.

Just x/c and donkshove if you get there otr, there's a merit to betting turn vs competent players for deception/thin value and I don't think you should get shoved on a lot by a good in position player. This guy however is a fish and there's a good chance he just ships a straight over your bet. AP you have to call I guess but it can't be much better than breakeven unfortunately.

About the solver check, I imagine it x/r overpairs, maybe even stuff like K9 otf. I can see you repping way bigger with a x/r and just calling 1p hands. In this case T is not that big of a disaster for your range.

Thanks for the responses all. Some good discussion here.

I’ve been very (perhaps overly) focused on playing as balanced as I can in a lot of spots recently and that can lead to overthinking. For example, I thought in game that taking a xr, xc, xc on blanks or lead on river board pairs puts my hand entirely face up.

Here, after xraising the flop and seeing the T which completes any 8x for a straight, my initial thought was that if I had an 8 here, I would want to keep betting. In reality, 8x is only a small part of my range, and most of my range wants to check call this turn because I think we want to keep Vs range wider (and not compress it to hands that are beating us).

In reality, this is an obvious cooler and playing my hand through a xc on the turn may or may not have changed the results. I don’t think if I xc 500 on the turn and the river bricks that I can fold for like 900. Maybe sometimes. However, playing my hand as a b/c on turn pretty much always has me up against an 8 (maybe occasionally 2 pair, lower set, or bluff). As others have said, that’s a break even call at best (and break even is over optimistic.)

Cool hand.

Anyways V ships turn over my 350. I tank call. He has A8s. We run it twice and he wins both.


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Shouldn't you know the answer to this before check raising someone massively on the flop? I mean what's the plan there? What do you fold out? The 2pr hands you could beat. It's 1/4 that the board pairs on the river. You raise turn he, re-raises what are you going to do?

Your mistake here is the check raise. I don't see you strong enough to do that and you're just stepping in it. I know a solver says otherwise, but are you really playing against GTO robot pros?

He called $300, I don't see him raising the turn. The hands that you'd beat are gone. You win if the board pairs. Check here then if he bets, you can do the math on whether the .25 probability of hitting your hand is worth what you'd get from a straight on a paired board. Otherwise, you bet 300, he raises to 700, you call. It's now a $2100 pot and you have $800 left. You going to fold if he bets $500 for value or all in?