5/10 river raise fml - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

I think OP's reasoning for leading river is very spot on.

I'm more curious what hero does if villain bombs turn and bombs river (same runout). I get owned in these spots too often.

Sometimes I call sometimes I fold. I think a lot depends on sizing, timing, etc. I have no generic answer.

I will say in general that I prefer to be the aggressor rather than playing passive guessing games. Check call check call lines suck unless you have very specific reasons to use them ( and this situation might actually be one such case.)

Quote

07-13-2014 , 01:17 AM

#27

TimeBomb

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,676

You checked the turn in order to induce, better late then never! I call vs this vill but it is a really borderline spot even considering images.

Quote

07-13-2014 , 03:55 AM

#28

663366

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,935

I like a turn bet, if if we check and want to lead river then I like ~$750.

Quote

07-14-2014 , 09:00 PM

#29

cl0r0x70

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by 663366

I like a turn bet, if if we check and want to lead river then I like ~$750.

I actually considered bet/fold on the turn for a second before checking, to get value from big draws, but chose a lower variance line.

I ignored basic hand reading (flop and turn played like a big draw) in lieu of "recreational villains who raise river big over strong lines have the nuts."

Spoiler:

Quote

07-15-2014 , 01:00 AM

#30

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by CabreraEra2

Pretty easy fold especially given your "meh"/weak post flop read. I would need a read that this guy is seriously spazzy as virtually no live 5/10NL opponents are capable of bluffing with this line IME.

this. until villain shows me he likes to run big bluffs (and not just take several small stabs on flop), pretty standard bet fold here. he's repping JJ, 77 only though so if he is really bluffy, this is an easy call

Quote

07-15-2014 , 01:05 AM

#31

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by cl0r0x70

Spoiler:

and now you have this free info and can adjust in the future against him. there are 6 combos total of 77, JJ. while that is small, its not like hes repping one combo of quads only. the vast majority of villains will have a boat here given their line even if they like to raise draws on flop. you made the right fold based on info you had

Quote

07-15-2014 , 04:53 PM

#32

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

Fold was good. Let's not be results oriented. So the dude made a once-in-a-blue-moon huge move. Good for him.

Quote

07-15-2014 , 05:05 PM

#33

ebet33

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by cl0r0x70

Showdown hands that call pre, raise flop and check turn.

not that many of them imo he should have tons of bluffs, and some nutty hands and not that many medium hands that will want to call a riv bet

Quote

07-20-2014 , 06:45 PM

#34

UCDLaCrosse

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,903

It feels pretty gross seeing results because I think river is a bet/fold.

That being said; if you look at the hand in a vacuum it makes pretty much perfect sense for a missed draw but like NOBODY bluffs rivers like this EVER so I just fold and take note. That turn check man....confused the **** out of me.

Quote

07-20-2014 , 07:06 PM

#35

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

So I guess the morale of the story... if you wanna soulpwn a thinking grinder take a superweird bluff line that no one ever takes as a bluff :P

Quote

07-20-2014 , 08:24 PM

#36

cl0r0x70

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,313

The f'ed up thing is that a similar thing happened again this past weekend at Borgata. I had 78 on a J78 flop and bet all three streets in position on a J78KQ runout and got check-raise bluffed on the river (I bet folded.)

Maybe I have a bluffable image problem, but my guess is that most of the players in my pool probably see me as a calling station.

So I guess maybe I'm just seeing some negative variance of a different kind. Either that or there is a new trend in northeast midstakes poker.

Last edited by cl0r0x70; 07-20-2014 at 08:31 PM.

Quote

07-20-2014 , 10:42 PM

#37

Ranma4703

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,099

Quote:

Originally Posted by cl0r0x70

So I guess maybe I'm just seeing some negative variance of a different kind. Either that or there is a new trend in northeast midstakes poker.

This is possible; I've seen more river bluff raises in the past month then all my years previous. Going from pretty much zero times, to three in the last month.

Quote

07-21-2014 , 12:48 PM

#38

TimeBomb

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,676

Much more likely to fold that one then this one.

Quote

07-21-2014 , 04:28 PM

#39

cl0r0x70

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranma4703

This is possible; I've seen more river bluff raises in the past month then all my years previous. Going from pretty much zero times, to three in the last month.

Perhaps a response to regs commonly bet-folding for thin value on rivers.

Quote

07-22-2014 , 01:08 AM

#40

epicbeast

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 312

Woah I woulda checked the river for sure not saying that makes it right. Gotta fold the river now I've NEVER seen a bluff here from a recreational player. Idk that's just me

Quote

07-22-2014 , 02:24 AM

#41

Tier1Capital

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by cl0r0x70

I'd like to hear more about this hand. What did he get to the river with that he turned into a bluff??

Quote

07-22-2014 , 02:30 AM

#42

BIGFISH72

adept

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 799

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tier1Capital

I'd like to hear more about this hand. What did he get to the river with that he turned into a bluff??

Ad 5d

Quote

07-22-2014 , 05:27 AM

#43

pilliapina

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 490

My guess is his most likely hand is JJ. People love to play tricky-trappy when they hit a monster. Oh and I too am very surprised seeing results, I would just assume that if he had a draw and wanted to bluff he'd barrel turn for sure, so nice hand villain I guess.

Quote

07-22-2014 , 09:55 AM

#44

Tier1Capital

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGFISH72

Ad 5d

I mean in the J87KQ hand, not the hand in the OP.

Quote

07-22-2014 , 10:16 AM

#45

Tyler Durden

banned

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 15,299

Would he make such a large raise if he was bluffing?

Quote

07-22-2014 , 02:02 PM

#46

DGAF

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by cl0r0x70

Perhaps a response to regs commonly bet-folding for thin value on rivers.

Yes. Everyone is evolving/adjusting. The only reason you bet river is because he's weak post flop ---> he doesn't bluff or go for thin value. So you had to fold to the raise. In general though you can protect yourself by betting bigger/polarizing yourself in spots like that.

Spoiler:

Quote

07-23-2014 , 09:56 PM

#47

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGAF

Spoiler:

Nah, you protect yourself much better by betting smaller than half a pot and keeping the range depolarized imo. But it's not like we're trying balance here.

Quote

07-24-2014 , 03:26 AM

#48

DGAF

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginary F(r)iend

Nah, you protect yourself much better by betting smaller than half a pot and keeping the range depolarized imo. But it's not like we're trying balance here.

Imaginary- you never get bluffed when you are polarized, and you get called super light. What am I missing (serious question)?

Quote

07-24-2014 , 03:32 AM

#49

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

Our range contains very few bluffs given our flop play but a wide amount medium strength - strong hands.

By betting small wide opponent can either try to catch with his bluff catchers/weak value hands, raise as a bluff (again worse since a small bet and we can probably figure out a non-abusable calling range quite easily) or fold (fine).

I feel like polarizing gives our opponent too easy EV+ decisions on the river.

Again my opinion. Also I'm not saying that it's the most EV+ here but I feel like if we're looking for protection it seems better.

Last edited by Imaginary F(r)iend; 07-24-2014 at 03:43 AM.

Quote

07-24-2014 , 06:34 AM

#50

cl0r0x70

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tier1Capital

I'd like to hear more about this hand. What did he get to the river with that he turned into a bluff??

KTs. His line was nonsensical (check call, check call, check raise) but I folded anyhow due to the runout and they-never-bluff-in-this-spot theory. Theory subject to change, apparently.

Quote

Page 2 of 3

First

1 2 3

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 2 of 3

First

1 2 3

Last