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5/10 Overpair on double paired board 5/10 Overpair on double paired board

01-22-2015 , 11:25 PM
Hand happened at commerce. Villain is a slightly aggro middle aged asian player. Seems to know some of the regs so he might also be a reg, but he has the appearance of a rec player. Plays kinda loose pre, bets a lot if checked to, I haven't seen any of his showdowns yet. I've been playing at the table for 2 hours and I've noticed villain has bet/folded twice already. He doesn't look tilted but he's lost several hands in a row and he's asian. Not sure what my image is (most rec players think I'm the biggest spewtard in the world, most other players think I'm just a mediocre TAG), but I'm almost even and the only hand I got to showdown in 2 hours I cbet the flop, gave up, and lost to mid pair.

Eff stacks 1400
Hero opens AA to $35 from EP, 2 callers including villain in the CO, BB overcalls.

Flop: 642r
Hero bets $100 into $140, 1 fold, villain makes it $235, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 6 brings a bd fd, don't remember the suit
Hero checks, villain bets $350, Hero calls.

River: 4
Hero checks, villain ships ~$800, Hero?

I haven't seen villain raise postflop yet, but he doesn't seem like the type of player that will raise 6x to see where he's at.
5/10 Overpair on double paired board Quote
01-23-2015 , 03:15 AM
i fold river as played. i think flop is close depending on if you think he's going to stack off with something like 88.
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01-23-2015 , 05:13 AM
Yeah I probably fold the river, but if you got curious, I'm not sure how much I'd fault you.
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01-23-2015 , 05:13 AM
is this against kt? if it is, river is a fold. if it isn't against him, river is still a fold.
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01-23-2015 , 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakes
i fold river as played. i think flop is close depending on if you think he's going to stack off with something like 88.
Isn't turning overpairs into bluffs on this type of board what the young guns do nowadays? I got "bluffed" off a big pot in a similar situation several months ago against a young reg who turned small overpair into a bluff (I had king high). I have no idea if this middle aged guy is capable of that though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstevens
is this against kt? if it is, river is a fold. if it isn't against him, river is still a fold.
I had never seen this guy before, but I hardly play at commerce to begin with so I'm not familiar with all the regs. IME everyone under the age of 30 (and some over) at commerce tries to bluff the **** out of me, so the main thing going through my mind is if this older guy thinks hes part of the cool kids club or not.
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01-23-2015 , 12:37 PM
i doubt that is standard
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01-23-2015 , 10:01 PM
Raising this flop with 88 seems pretty bad whereas raising with 56/45/34 seems pretty standard. (Speaking of raising hands that have sdv). That being said I only seen a few of the very good pros (and, ironically, giant whales) raising those sdv hands on flops like this.

I can see why you'd want to call, there are only 5 logical combos of hands that beat you. I'd still shrug and fold most of the time barring a spew read on villain.
5/10 Overpair on double paired board Quote
01-24-2015 , 01:42 AM
3 ball the flop, as played fold river. Don't think vill is folding 99 ever and if he out flopped you he's gii river anyways. I do understand you are afraid he folds but I think he does this with more hands he won't fold then he will, and most of those hands he may get fold to a lot of big cards on later streets. I mean is he really folding any pair to a small 3 bet on flop?
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01-24-2015 , 04:45 PM
Why are you guys calling the turn? Going for the ace on the river?
5/10 Overpair on double paired board Quote
01-26-2015 , 10:21 AM
Seems like a spot where we should be calling turn to call river. If you don't want to call a shove on the river you should be folding turn. V seems very intent on setting up a river shove. If you have never seen V raise a flop yet then I like just calling. It is important to know what V thinks of you, if he sees you as tight then I would imagine he is raising all sets on the flop when you c-bet.
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01-26-2015 , 08:48 PM
River fold here I think, but it's close.
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01-28-2015 , 01:56 PM
vs an autobet when checked to kinda dude i go ahead and raise flop for value looking for him to spaz w/ a bunch of crap. not sure if you can get away with that with your image (if they see you as too much TAG). this is entirely player dependant though and i dont know if this villain is the one its gonna depend on.

you gotta be able to get a better understanding of your villains in 2hrs though ie. frequency wise of flop raises vs EP aggressor on low boards does he like to rep crap boards because he's loose pre and folks get gun shy?

basically you have to realize that villain knows you raised EP and led flop into 4 people and then flatted his flop raise. Depending on what you know about villain, he should realize that your range has all pairs up to AA yet still fires turn and shoves river. Depending on what you think about villains thought process, the above is clearly obvious to even some remedial thinkers at 5/10. That said, based on villains play, is his little mind going "lol he haz AK i has 77 and can barrel him off cuz im crazy and rep low boards like a pro" or maybe "lol he has JJ-QQ and i will barrell him off" or maybe "I will get 2 free cards raising flop vs villain because i am agressive IP and he will want to check/call with all value hands in his range" or etc etc etc. You should be able to have some idea how villains are playing which would make the turn an easy fold or a clear call turn and call river shove as the river changes nothing given his line (youre not deep enough where he could have many 4x that raises flop barrels turn and then jams the river)

But in a vacuum - you rep an overpair and a strong one. In a vacuum we assume Villain is 100% aware of this fact, raises you OTF and barrels turn and shoves river. Its still close - as mentioned he reps such a small amount of hands but its a fold on the turn or call the river & never the opposite.

clarification/Tl;DR
essentially fold the turn or as played fold the river. what flips this decision to not folding the turn would be a stronger grasp on how villain thinks/plays - autobet when checked to is part of that but not enough for me to say "ez call" but given description i understand the conundrum 100% still, however i just dont think its enough of an understanding to warrant speculating about if river is a call ever.

Last edited by boasorte; 01-28-2015 at 02:05 PM.
5/10 Overpair on double paired board Quote
02-04-2015 , 02:37 PM
I've got a river call here. I'd say he has to have you for JJ+. His turn bet is too large for value when that board pairs. And his river bet is definitely too large for value.
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02-28-2015 , 01:20 PM
RESULTS:
Hero called and villain tabled 78o.
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02-28-2015 , 02:09 PM
3bet flop to 440
fold turn
fold river
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03-05-2015 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauper
RESULTS:
Hero called and villain tabled 78o.
ya not to be results oriented but i wouldve said his flop raise seems like a gutter
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03-05-2015 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gangip
3bet flop to 440
fold turn
fold river
I never considered 3bet-folding flop when reading the OP. I like this a lot. Way better than checking calling your whole stack off. The problem is he still has pair and a straight draw in his range although I think some guys will want the cheapest turn card they can get. I think folding to a raise on the flop is way too weak though.
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03-05-2015 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuqAta8
ya not to be results oriented but i wouldve said his flop raise seems like a gutter
The small raise makes it look like a gutter? Do you find people raise bigger with sets?
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03-10-2015 , 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by massivetilt99
The small raise makes it look like a gutter? Do you find people raise bigger with sets?
People don't raise with sets...they call. It's called slowplaying and trapping.

No real hand raises this flop.
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