$1000 eff. My image young TAG. V1 is a stationy fish, looks like a 50ish businessman, also likes to donk into PFR. V2 is a young white guy new to the table. Folded a few hands, stole OTB once. Looks "smart and collected". Doesn't look like a degen at all, get the grinder vibe from him.

I open JTcc to $40 after it's folded to me in HJ, V2 calls in CO, folds to V2 in BB who calls.

Flop: Kc9c7h Pot ~ $130 V1 donks $120, I call, V2 makes it $320, V1 calls, comes back to me.

I'm pretty sure on what to do AP and I'm actually more interested on the best action after V1 donks. Would a raise have been better than a flat and why? If we raise after the donk and V1 flats and we brick turn - what's the plan?

How has the table responded to his donk bets and how has he responded when called, raised, etc?

I'd usually just raise the first time, winning $250 unimproved is a really sweet result for this hand and getting it in can't be a big mistake. As played it's probably a flat and fold board-pairing turns.

Yeah I can't think of any reason to call the donk, not balance, nor value, really any reason. You have a good board for fold equity, a stronger range, and a hand that wants to get folds, raise the flop. Flatting is better with Axcc or JTos, not with what you actually have.

Agree with the 2 previous posts that Hero should raise the donk bet. As played I don't like shoving because we can easily be against the nut flush draw. I think calling and reeval turn is best.

+1

With $1000 effective at a 5/10 game, I would have no problem shoving. That's a relatively small stack for that stakes game IMO. Usually $2000 to $3000 which would change decision of course.

There's a great micro-fr "concept of the week" on playing draws, follow the links into the dusty archives of 2+2 for a fine afternoon of reading.

The theory is, you want to play your draws fast if you're heads up, out of position vs a short-stacked, aggressive opponent likely to bet a polarized range. Further away from that scenario you get, the more you want to play your draws passively.

Net of everything, I think I would have called the donk bet. Which is hard for me. Donk bets need raising but you're so blisteringly strong here it's worth calling to bring V2 along.

Once V2 raises, though, things change a bit.

My thinking is that V2 might not be all that strong. V1 needed raising, and you calling makes you look kind of weak. For V2, I discount AA/KK/AK (no 3b). If you re-raise, you will get called by 99/77. V2 will probably fold Kx, V1 will probably call with it. V2 isn't polarized here, there's no air in his range (least I don't think there is) but he's vulnerable.

V2 may well be on the nfd. He's thinking, "position + fold equity + free card + implied odds = money." I think about the only way you can throw a monkey wrench into that plan is to come over the top.

Yeah, I said "monkey." If this is a monkey-shove, I'll take the abuse. But I think there's an argument for it here.



ETA: Oh wait these are only 100bb stacks? Shoot I'm all-n before V1's chips hit the table. Ain't even close.

Also, I don't play 5/10, I would definitely call V1's bet at 1/2 or 2/5 but maybe raising would be better at 5/10? Don't know. Theory being, at the lower limits, without a read to the contrary, might be reasonable to think V2 plays passively, having called pre.

Being that you're not in position and co can potentially make life hard on later action I would just raise for fe and to eliminate putting yourself in a hard part.

If we had the button I like calling flop (hu or mw).

How much would you raise? Plan for bricked turn?

i think I would just fold to the reraise, players never going to fold to a shove, and your draw might not even be good

Grunch.

Flopping the absolute monster draw that you did, I would probably raise the flop. Size it so that you can jam the turn with a bet that has some FE if you get flatted OTF.

As played, I mean you could jam... but I doubt you have any FE. I guess call... Probably check turn if checked to.

How much would I raise OTF? Err... You've got $960 behind... if you raise to $300 and get called in one spot the pot would be... $730. Means you would be shoving $660 into $730. Seems like it would be good to get folds from Kx a good portion of the time. You can play with the numbers a bit... If you raise to $350 the pot will be $830 and you will have $610 behind. Plan to jam all turns?

i dont think it can be bad to gii on this flop as it played out...if V2 is semi smart/competent I'm not too worried about him having the bigger draw or I have little doubt he flats after w/position and as described V1s range is pretty wide here.

yeah def not bad...even giving them top end ranges were gonna be +EV getting it in here.