Villian is one of the 2 good Lags at the table, although tonight he has been pretty tight pre and hyper aggro post. Villian never acts quickly so there are no timing tells and it is pretty clear he always considers all options. He does well in tourneys and cash. We have played a few times each in 5/10 10/25 and even plo. For the most part he has gotten the better of me although almost every hand has not gone to showdown and I don't think we have had any all ins. Villian is directly to my left. The previous orbit was folded to me on the button I raised 35 he 3-bet to 140 I called. Flop was k57 with a flush draw, he c-bet 180 and I raised to 600 and he folded. We are about 3.5k eff.

I am running pretty good and playing a little tighter then normal due to villian.

Pre - Folded to me on the button with 88 I raise to 40 villian raises to 160 and I make it 400 and villian calls?

Flop (810) - k73r. Check to me I bet 425 he calls.

Turn (1635) - 10r. Villian checks, I?

Pre I can easily flat and set mine/play poker, but villian will pretty much always at least barrell flop and turn unless they are super bad and I am not really prepared to call off ~2k if he 3 barrells with 88. I didn't really expect villian to flat pre, and now I have a decent flop for my hand although I didn't really think villian would fold to a c-bet, so now what?

if you have pf history to indicate villain is capped at KQ except 77, barreling off sounds good. by default probably just give up.

calling pf and calling 2-3 barrels on nice boards seems better than this line, unless you're trying to set up some sort of spew-dynamic for future hands.

before you bet flop i would think about whether or not he floats OOP with hands worse than 88.

as played the board texture is so dry i think it's an easy check.


also-- if you're barreling here, with 88, i guess that means you're barreling your entire 4b range, which i think is a mistake when someone flats a 4b preflop when there is an aggressive dynamic between you two.

I would definitely not be barreling 99-QQ, and I am not sure about AQ. But I think this board is too good for our perceived range to not be bluffing at (our value range of AK, AA,KK is a decent percentage of our perceived 4bet range, and I assume due to sizing that your perceived 4bets are unpolarized so you don't have Axs or whatever to bluff with in this spot).

Is there any merit to folding to the 4x 3 bet preflop?

Isn't pre a flat almost always vs described villain?

flat 3b pre.

if you're betting the flop, then you have to at least bet the turn. I just don't see him ever folding flop with anything. 3rd barrel is the optional one.

For those advocating I flat his 3-bet pre (which is standard for me, I think this is first time I have ever 4-bet him) how do I play this hand? Like I said before he will almost always bet flop and turn and quite often just bomb away except on really bad board runouts. I can obviously just set mine profitably, but this board is pretty good and it is hard to believe I am not often good here. Also if I flat and hit my set, how wet does the board have to be for me to not just call flop?

4 bet is pretty awful, and flatting the 3b does not mean you are set mining. especially not this deep. you also aren't always just bluff catching with it. Sometimes you get to bluff! if you are thinking about this spot this way you probably have a lot of leaks when deep in 3b pots, and you should consider either buying in more shallow or really spending a lot of time considering ranges when deep.

as played...

flop barrel is probably good with pretty much your whole range. now give him a range for flatting your 4b, and estimate what you think he would do with each parts of that range on this flop when you cbet. consider that turn floating range, and consider what your perceived range is and how this hand fits within it. Are you being exploited by checking back? can you exploit him by barreling?

poker is fun

Shocked no one else has mentioned this but unless the other blind is a huge fish 4xing the button when folded to is probably pretty horrendous. You also need to flat the 3b, 4betting there is just absurd. Flop is w/e but I'd probably check it back as default, mainly because when he 4x 3-bets a button 4x then flats a 4-bet his range is extremely strong and I don't think he's folding JJ/QQ or anything. As played easiest give up ever. His range is extremely strong, you have the bottom of yours, just check back and fold river unless you bink an 8.

Standard is 35, tbh I probably haven't made it 40 on the button in a year or more, I actually did it specificly to throw off sb which it obviously didn't:P Anyway I think oop villian is pretty much always 3 betting to 4x, and he very rarely flats my button raises oop.

Anyways I check back turn, river is an 8 he leads 1225 I stuff for ~1.5k on top and he folds pretty quickly (for him) and now I really can't put him on any hand I just can't imagine him b/folding any hand with sd value especially for basicly a min raise even though it's almost impossible for me to be bluffing.

guess he floated the flop, or was going for some thin value on the river with QQ or JJ. If he had Kx I guess b/f is probably good, because as you said your line is almost never a bluff.