Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK 5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK

07-28-2011 , 04:24 PM
Game is 8-handed. There are a couple fish in the game who are playing tons of hands, and most players are fairly deep, so people have been raising bigger than normal preflop. Villain has been playing pretty tight and hasn't really gotten out of line. However, he is capable of getting aggressive and bluffing when he sees a good opportunity. Seems like a smart player. My image is reasonably loose and aggressive, but I haven't played too many big pots.

Effective stacks 2000.

I am on the button with KK.

Preflop
Villain limps UTG, three other people limp, and I make it 70. Villain calls and the other players fold.

Flop (180): 863
Villain checks, I bet 110, and villain checkraises to 300. I call.

Turn (780): 2
Villain bets 470, leaving 1150 in his stack. What do I do?
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-28-2011 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duh_winning
he is capable of getting aggressive and bluffing
Your reasoning behind this statement should probably be the foundation of your decision in this spot, given that in general he is tight. Why don't you elaborate further on this read.

Also, in before reverse post.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-28-2011 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyvjv13
Your reasoning behind this statement should probably be the foundation of your decision in this spot, given that in general he is tight. Why don't you elaborate further on this read.

Also, in before reverse post.
Yeah my read isn't too precise because I haven't played with him too much. I know he is one of the better regs, and I think he is the type to make sure he can at least represent a wide value range when he puts a bluff in. Also, he has 3-bet me twice in position in the few hours we have played.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-28-2011 , 08:20 PM
Why is your image loose and aggressive? Do you look <25 years old? Have you constantly been raising limpers in position or 3-betting light?

If you feel like you're an easy target for a TAG to make a play at, I'd 3-bet flop and probably fold to a shove. Calling is fine as well. As played I fold on the turn. His bet sizing screams value and also makes a river shove very likely putting you in a horrible spot. If he's decent, he knows you def have an overpair here after calling his check-raise. At worst he has A6ss or 67ss, but I find it unlikely he has a big draw here given his line and stacks. A strong draw would be more likely b/3b or check-raise huge. He prob has 33 or 66 here. I also doubt he's getting out of line here, the fact that he limped then called pre means his hand has serious value.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-28-2011 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duh_winning
What do I do?
Figure out how villan plays spades/combos/79/57/etc......theres alot more draws then sets/two pair combos here, but not every villan is going to play their draws this aggressively.......if you feel hes capable of playing draws like this then I wouldn't be folding.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-29-2011 , 01:53 AM
Would help to know what his UTG limp/call range is. Does he limp/call huge raises with a lot of suited gappers UTG? Or is it mostly Axs/pps? If he's competent then I don't see very many bluffs in his range other than Axs and 65s/67s which you are flipping against. Sizing could go either way absent reads. Small turn bet could just be setting up a river bluff shove, or it could be trying to sucker you in.

Last edited by jlocdog; 07-29-2011 at 11:31 AM.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-29-2011 , 10:52 AM
Ed Miller's Professional No Limit book handles this situation really well. Basically you put your self in a terrible spot by achieving an SPR of nearly 11 on the flop. This makes a big pair difficult to play.

Avoiding it preflop in your situation is hard because limping, to keep your SPR high is terrible because KK in a 6 way pot sucks and raising enough to create an SPR where you don't mind stacking off with your overpair forces you to raise too much pre.

Villain though gave you the solution on the flop. Why were you betting the flop? Did you want to stack off? Three big bets will do it. Or three 2/3 size bets puts you in a position where if villain ever raises you're playing for stacks.

Check the flop behind and then you can play two streets and avoid playing for stacks. The flop is not that bad, the straight draws are pretty unlikely, is villain limp calling hands like 97 or 45, flush draws are possible but if the flush draw hits on the turn you have a redraw to the 2nd nut. Sets are the hands you are worried about but they're hard to hit and calling two reasonable bets and losing to a set is not the worst result. You may even be able to find a fold on the river and only have to call a small bet on the turn if you're beat.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-29-2011 , 05:04 PM
quit poker if u check behind this flop imo ;S, specially if his l/c range contains a lot of Axs and SCs/SGs
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-29-2011 , 05:30 PM
Call turn, soul-read river.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-29-2011 , 10:01 PM
there was a hand not too long ago with a similar scenario. ppl suggested folding flop with a blocker. I didn't really agree.

but here, i think this definitely applies unless you got some good read that he overplays certain handtypes. fold flop imo.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-29-2011 , 11:00 PM
TAG players dont typically play their draws like this. I probably fold the turn.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-30-2011 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakkers
TAG players dont typically play their draws like this. I probably fold the turn.
This is what I would do. Plus, it doesn´t seems like you have too much history vs him and you said he´s tight. And his limping range preflop hits this board pretty well.
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote
07-30-2011 , 06:39 PM
I'm a lowers stakes player but my initial thought was that the preflop raise could have been bigger.

Granted we probably aren't going to obtain an optimal SPR but w/ 200bb eff stacks and 4 limpers shouldn't we be making it a bit bigger pre?
5/10 live tricky deep spot with KK Quote

      
m