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5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

07-30-2010 , 11:13 AM
Horseshoe Hammond 5/10, 7-handed.

Villain is a young player who plays online. He moved to the table a few hours ago with his buddy, and I think I heard them making fun of live players and trying to guess someone's VPIP or whatever. He seems to be a decent player. Has been winning, not playing too loose or too tight. I probably appear to him to be a decent tightish player. I felt like I appeared pretty conservative, folding to lots of raises postflop.

Effective stacks 1500.

I am in the HJ with 57.

Preflop
One weak limper and I make it 50. Villain reraises to 170, limper folds. This would be a good spot for villain to be 3-betting light, but I don't know too much about how he plays. Not sure what to do here. Since I don't know him too well, I guess folding is a good move. But if I suspect a light 3-bet, it's OK to call or 4-bet here sometimes, right? I opt to call.

Flop (365): 58J
I check and he bets 230. I call.

Turn (825): A
I check and he bets 350, leaving 750 behind. He knows the ace is a scare card for me, so if he is bluffing, I think it is reasonable to assume he would continue with almost his entire bluff range. The problem is his small betsize. If he wants me fold, why does he bet so small? It's possible that he bets that amount to leave a half pot bet for the river. Since he is an online player, he may care about balance and standardizing bet sizes, so he may just use that sizing with his entire range. So do I just give up here since I am kind of lost? It hurts me to fold here since he could have 3-bet me with a pretty wide range, and given the way he cards came down, his range could still be really wide here.
5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss Quote
07-30-2010 , 11:19 AM
Don't call 3bets from good players oop with 57s?
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07-30-2010 , 11:25 AM
You want to show an internet kid who's boss, so you flat over 1/10 of your stack pre OOP with 57s?

That should show him.

Last edited by jimmyvjv13; 07-30-2010 at 11:25 AM. Reason: damn, zetoran beat me to it.
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07-30-2010 , 11:29 AM
Three of the guys I play hoops with say lately there's a lot more "internet kids" that are playing the 5/10/20 game that runs M/W/F.
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07-30-2010 , 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyvjv13
You want to show an internet kid who's boss, so you flat over 1/10 of your stack pre OOP with 57s?

That should show him.
I know you shouldn't usually put that much in with a suited connector pre, but what if I strongly suspect he is 3-betting me with a very wide range, and I have a good image and plan to checkraise lots of flops?
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07-30-2010 , 12:00 PM
This might be shocking news for OP but it's okay to let yourself get outplayed a little bit on occasion. Even Phil Ivey will fold to a 3bet from an aggrotard every now and then.
5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss Quote
07-30-2010 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky
I know you shouldn't usually put that much in with a suited connector pre, but what if I strongly suspect he is 3-betting me with a very wide range, and I have a good image and plan to checkraise lots of flops?
um, if he's 3-betting u wide its more of a case to not iso 57s in MP OOP for one. Second, just because he's three betting u wide doesn't mean u should flat a hand like this OOP.
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07-30-2010 , 12:58 PM
but he's 3betting me wide bro
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07-30-2010 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solfege
Even Phil Ivey will fold to a 3bet from an aggrotard every now and then.
blasphemy
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07-30-2010 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky
I know you shouldn't usually put that much in with a suited connector pre, but what if I strongly suspect he is 3-betting me with a very wide range, and I have a good image and plan to checkraise lots of flops?
If you think he's 3-betting you wide you can expand your calling range, but 57s is behind even the widest of ranges. And you're out of position, people 3-bet wide in position because opponents will make mistakes like you made and call oop with hands they can almost never continue with.

If you want to make a play so bad you can't contain yourself, 4bet him, don't flat oop with junk.
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07-30-2010 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky
I know you shouldn't usually put that much in with a suited connector pre, but what if I strongly suspect he is 3-betting me with a very wide range, and I have a good image and plan to checkraise lots of flops?
I think it would be better to 4-bet preflop or fold than flat. Flatting just puts you in a ton of crappy spots with 150 blinds that you don't want. if u had 3k, different story.

I think you can find a better spot against this kid and I would likely have just folded to the 3-bet. But IMO, 4-bet is much better if you smell something fishy than flatting with these stacks.
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07-30-2010 , 01:55 PM
What u should do now is to check minraise and show him a 5. If he called, just go all in in the dark. This will show him who is the boss.

Where is Andrew Song now? He is a live boss. Ask him for advice.
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07-30-2010 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novel20
What u should do now is to check minraise and show him a 5. If he called, just go all in in the dark. This will show him who is the boss.
Haha this.
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07-30-2010 , 02:04 PM
Agreed with most of what has been said here so no comment in that regard.

Regarding your read, you mentioned he was not too loose and not too tight, and that your image was tight and conservative. As such, why are you so convinced that villain is 3-betting light? Does not compute...
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07-30-2010 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solfege
Even Phil Ivey will fold to a 3bet from an aggrotard every now and then.
lol what
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07-30-2010 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by negipai98
Agreed with most of what has been said here so no comment in that regard.

Regarding your read, you mentioned he was not too loose and not too tight, and that your image was tight and conservative. As such, why are you so convinced that villain is 3-betting light? Does not compute...
Yeah I was trying to read his mind a little too much here. I figured that since he was an internet guy, and this looked like a good 3-bet spot to an internet guy, that he would 3-bet me. Better not to make these guesses, I know.
5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss Quote
07-30-2010 , 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky
Yeah I was trying to read his mind a little too much here. I figured that since he was an internet guy, and this looked like a good 3-bet spot to an internet guy, that he would 3-bet me. Better not to make these guesses, I know.
Well you're right, it is a good spot for a competent internet player who is comfortable playing in a 5/10 game to squeeze you like this. Those are all enough reasons to go for a 4bet imo. I mean you werent exactly raising 57s for value in the first place, so **** your hand and go with your read. Sure you can flat and check raise (which you didnt), but this is infinitely more complex, and look at the situation you're in now.

Anyway it sounds like you know what to do next time, either fold and try to get a better read on him, or 4bet like a boss.
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07-30-2010 , 03:39 PM
4 bet would have been the way to go. We just are not deep enough for 75s to work very well, so i would have waited for a different holding for flatting OOP.
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07-30-2010 , 03:53 PM
Thanks for the responses. I have lots of experience with live 5/10, but I've avoided playing against the internet guys for the most part, so I'm uncertain about these types of situations.

By the way, I shoved the turn, he tanked forever, told me that since I'm so tight, he can't think of a hand besides AA that my line is consistent with, then folded JJ face up.
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07-30-2010 , 03:53 PM
forget. I was just being an ass to OP. Pre and flop are obviously terrible and no need to go into more.
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07-30-2010 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky
Thanks for the responses. I have lots of experience with live 5/10, but I've avoided playing against the internet guys for the most part, so I'm uncertain about these types of situations.

By the way, I shoved the turn, he tanked forever, told me that since I'm so tight, he can't think of a hand besides AA that my line is consistent with, then folded JJ face up.
wrote my post before I saw this, and either (1) you're lying, or (2) he's just terrible. I strongly suspect the former.
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07-30-2010 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fds
I was going to rip OP a new *******, but jloc would (rightfully) scold me. Basically, OP, if you just drew straws or asked a ******ed monkey what to do on each street, you would have played the hand better.

Fold or 4bet pre (I prefer to 4bet with blockers, but this is fine here). Fold or raise otf. Call/Call is the aboslute worst line to take.
OK just joking he snap called with the JJ.

Anyway, I did have a plan. It was to keep calling as long as more scare cards came that he could bluff! Yes, now I see that that was stupid.

Moving up to the 5/10/20 game next week, if any of you are in the Chicago area, come and get it!
5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss Quote
07-30-2010 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky
OK just joking he snap called with the JJ.

Anyway, I did have a plan. It was to keep calling as long as more scare cards came that he could bluff! Yes, now I see that that was stupid.

Moving up to the 5/10/20 game next week, if any of you are in the Chicago area, come and get it!
loooooool, teh J and teh J good hand imo. You showed him.
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07-30-2010 , 10:38 PM
fold pre OR 4-bet pre, but if you want to play the hand: lead flop / c/r flop / basically something other than repeatedly calling out of position not knowing what the hell is going on because even if he has complete air, two overs have 25% equity on you

btw, fyi i've noticed internet players don't 3-bet to that size preflop as a bluff
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07-31-2010 , 05:48 AM
5 star thread
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