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5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) 5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms)

07-24-2011 , 10:14 PM
5/10 Borgata

Hero has been extremely card dead, and the table have a few LAGs who are not afraid to put pressure in good spots for them to do so, so I have been folding tons and have a pretty nitty image. I have around 2.9k to start the hand.

V1 has around 1.8k. He is pretty loose and ran a no-equity bluff against a station a few hands ago on a scary board but checked a river blank IP and gave up.

V2 covers and is probably the laggiest player at the table. He is good and picks his spots postflop; he plays extremely straightforwardly in multiway pots but 3bets a ton preflop in position to isolate and is extremely aggressive in heads-up pots, often firing three barrels with air. He's relatively irrelevant to this hand but I include his description just for completeness.

Preflop: I open AQ (offsuit) from UTG to 40, V1 calls from the BTN, and V2 calls from the BB.

Flop (125): A (offsuit) Q5
I lead 85, V1 snap raises to 225, V2 folds and I call.

Turn (575): T
I check, V1 announces 400 and I beat him into the pot with a call.

River (1375): K (offsuit)
I check, V1 snap ships for around 1.1k. I fold face up (probably a mistake).

Thoughts? Flop would likely be a b/3b at 100bb deep (what beats me, 55?) but at 180bb deep I wanted to c/shove most non-diamond turns. Turn I can never fold with a ton of equity (NFD, boat outs) - I could ship although the only benefit is to prevent myself from getting bluffed on the river (for a lot more chips) since he's never folding better and rarely calling worse given my image. By the river he reps only flushes and I don't believe he would fold a flush if I open ship with the nut blocker.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-24-2011 , 11:34 PM
I like that you folded face up.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-25-2011 , 01:10 AM
I get the reasoning for the no b/3b on flop at 180bb with your plan for the turn, but against this specific loose opponent who just lost a hand to a station, I'd make a small 3b (maybe even a click) to see if he'd spew. I don't think he'd fold--at worst, he might just call and then you can still check(feigning weakness)/shove a non-diamond turn. He would be even more likely to call, feeling priced in with many of his possible hands.

As played, seems fine, albeit unpleasant.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-25-2011 , 04:53 AM
Don't get fancy OOP, just 3bet and get it in on the flop.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-25-2011 , 08:46 AM
Notes:

-see title change
-unless he's a complete maniac or views you as a complete nit, it was prob a good fold (long-term)
-I don't hate showing big folds as much as everyone else, as long as you think you can use the info (everyone knowing you played that hand passively and made a big fold) better than everyone else/you will not go on tilt if he shows you a bluff and he might implode if it's revealed that he had you coolered and didn't get paid
-if you bet flop, you have to 3-bet
-did you entertain the idea of checking flop against these bluffy/aggro villains with your nitty image after you flopped the world/aren't they both just folding to your c-bet a ton here?
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-25-2011 , 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerFink
Don't get fancy OOP, just 3bet and get it in on the flop.
This. No one ever believes the b/3b line OTF, myself included.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-25-2011 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frizzled
This. No one ever believes the b/3b line OTF, myself included.
Not even against a UTG nit (no offense, OP)?
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-25-2011 , 10:43 AM
Thanks for comments and advice.

b/3b from UTG looks extremely strong on that board given my perceived range, and I think it's relatively rare in the game for anyone to continue vs that line unless it's a cooler. Having the nut diamond significantly reduces his continuation combos as well, but if he wanted to FPS his stack off I probably should have induced him to do it.

I always tell myself never to FPS OOP, but I seem to have forgotten my advice in this hand I was just thinking how awkward stacks would be OOP if he flatted and a bad turn card hit, although I probably should have expected him to shove or fold.

Good call on possibly checking here, my checking range on this board as PFR does include my hand, especially if I opened from MP or LP, but I usually bet this board with my entire UTG range given how strong it hits.

fwiw I'm always getting told that I'm a nit (since I play very similarly to my 14/12 FR online self, but with several live-based adjustments) but my net non-SD winnings have always been pretty high, since live players love to call one and fold to a second barrel; I guess I use my image well.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-25-2011 , 11:23 PM
This totally depends on villain and what lvl he is on.

But given action/reads I call fairllllllllly quickly. I just dont think he can have sets given action unless he's reallllly good and thinks you can never have flushes here.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-26-2011 , 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF
Not even against a UTG nit (no offense, OP)?
Maybe if its a SNIT, but I've been traumatized by euro lags 3betting me on A high flops with bottom pair/gutshots/complete air.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-26-2011 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frizzled
Maybe if its a SNIT, but I've been traumatized by euro lags 3betting me on A high flops with bottom pair/gutshots/complete air.
That's a whole different beast than hero (as he described himself) in this hand. What are you raising with against them? And why?
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-26-2011 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF
That's a whole different beast than hero (as he described himself) in this hand. What are you raising with against them? And why?
I'm bluffing obv. Or I have a set/two pair and they insta fold when I jam.

Although I do think I have a point. Even the OP in this thread chose the stack a donk line instead of 3bet OTF.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote
07-26-2011 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoh
Thanks for comments and advice.

b/3b from UTG looks extremely strong on that board given my perceived range, and I think it's relatively rare in the game for anyone to continue vs that line unless it's a cooler. Having the nut diamond significantly reduces his continuation combos as well, but if he wanted to FPS his stack off I probably should have induced him to do it.

I always tell myself never to FPS OOP, but I seem to have forgotten my advice in this hand I was just thinking how awkward stacks would be OOP if he flatted and a bad turn card hit, although I probably should have expected him to shove or fold.

Good call on possibly checking here, my checking range on this board as PFR does include my hand, especially if I opened from MP or LP, but I usually bet this board with my entire UTG range given how strong it hits.

fwiw I'm always getting told that I'm a nit (since I play very similarly to my 14/12 FR online self, but with several live-based adjustments) but my net non-SD winnings have always been pretty high, since live players love to call one and fold to a second barrel; I guess I use my image well.
I actually like your reasoning here, but you still have to play this faster OOP.
5/10 live, I play a decent hand passively and get owned (Line Check/criticisms) Quote

      
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