Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
5-10 live, check raised on the river? 5-10 live, check raised on the river?

12-03-2009 , 07:11 PM
5-10 NL live. My image is very laggy. Villain is an ultra-loose donk, about mid40s Armenian dude. He is a little more aggro than the typical live passive donk, but in a very spewy way, a dream to have at the table. Villain has about 2K, I cover.

I raise $40 UTG with JJ. All fold to villain in SB, he's been commenting on how I've been raising every pot and calls as usual. BB calls as well. Pot $120.

Flop comes A-10-3 rainbow. Check Check Check.

Turn comes 6 and puts a flush draw out there. Check Check, I bet $90 into $120. Villian quickly calls. BB folds. At this point, I think he is check-calling the turn with any random 10, any mid PP, backdoor flush and/or straight draw. I take any ace, 2pair, or set out of his range as I think he bet-calls the turn with any Ace. I think he bets-3bets or check-raises the turn with any 2pair or set. Pot $300.

River pairs the A (does not complete flush draw). He checks. I'm positive he is paying me off here with any 10 or any PP. I value bet $200 into $300. He quickly announces "raise", thinks for about 8 secs, and makes it $400 on top. I was fully expecting him to check-call or check-fold, its just so rare to get check-raised on the river in a live game. EZ fold?

Hero???
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-03-2009 , 07:22 PM
Isn't this a snapcall based on your reads?
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-03-2009 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHero
Villain is an ultra-loose donk, about mid40s Armenian dude. He is a little more aggro than the typical live passive donk, but in a very spewy way, a dream to have at the table.
^ Is anyone gonna say fold after this?
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-03-2009 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t77
^ Is anyone gonna say fold after this?
Ok, just reread that part, the wording makes him seem much more aggro than he is. I meant to say he is for the most part a typical loose-passive live donk, with only slightly more aggro tendencies. This river check-raise is definitely not typical of him.
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-03-2009 , 08:51 PM
check raise on the river from a live PASSIVE donk is hardly ever a bluff, if thats what youre wondering
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-03-2009 , 10:30 PM
Was the other A a flush card or was it possible for him to have Ax with a flush draw?
Obv your hand looks like it cannot beat an A since you checked it back 3-way.
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-05-2009 , 02:20 AM
@op
he could still have QQ KK and play the same way.

he would prob lead out with a Ax on river
would prob at least think or consider raising turn with AT, A3, A6, sets on turn.

in SB 1 person left to act pot doesnt have to many runners he can slow play big overpair and little speach maybe ******edly trying to induce BB to squeeze?

fold river ><* imo
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-05-2009 , 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metski
@op
he could still have QQ KK and play the same way.

he would prob lead out with a Ax on river
would prob at least think or consider raising turn with AT, A3, A6, sets on turn.

in SB 1 person left to act pot doesnt have to many runners he can slow play big overpair and little speach maybe ******edly trying to induce BB to squeeze?

fold river ><* imo
didnt realize i was on twitter. annoying.

if i were op i would ignore this post since its completely nonsensical, but then again, if i were op i wouldnt have played my hand like this so who knows. if kk and qq are a viable part of his range i think we also need to consider the fact that he could have called the turn with 27o, 54s, and 65s.
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-05-2009 , 12:01 PM
i would call and be pretty happy about it (no level)
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-05-2009 , 01:25 PM
Shove, play big stack poker.
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-05-2009 , 02:38 PM
I'd probably just check the flop, with the intention of giving up.
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-08-2009 , 09:00 AM
Call river

Villain doesn't check => insta-raise with a monster hand here.

Verbal strength = hand weakness etc. etc.
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-09-2009 , 05:49 PM
why can't he play a Ace like this. If he is not happy with his kicker, he checks to the raiser on the flop, then check calls a bet on the turn. And in his mind you've shown some strength in making 3/4 pot size bet on the turn he can check raise you on the river. That is not too sophisticated thinking for a donk. You know the villain better than i do and have more information on him, but by how you described him i think he is still capable of having a A good amount of the time here.
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote
12-09-2009 , 11:05 PM
for a typical live donk, I totally agree with your assessment of his turn range. He needs to have a pretty pretty small ace to check the turn. Also, if he C/C the turn with a big hand, I see tons of similar bad players donk the river as a value line.

I think we can all agree that given villain's description, his range is pretty polarized from his river play. I think villain's perception of your play should be a considerable factor in your river decision. Live donks take some pretty ridiculous, unexplainable lines sometimes- he could've flatted the turn with a very weak hand/draw just to not back down from a loose player he's fed up with. After he misses the river, he decides to take it down the only way he can still win. He also might think your river bet makes your range polarized to bluffs and trips+, which adds to the likelihood of a successful bluff in his eyes.

The advantage of live play is that every decision can be super-tailored to the villain because there's usually so much information. I don't think you talked about his bluff frequencies enough for an accurate assessment. As described, I'd prob. call.

Last edited by 3BarrelSlinger; 12-09-2009 at 11:14 PM.
5-10 live, check raised on the river? Quote

      
m