first day at casino.

UTG+1 is an unremarkable TAG. doesn't open much in EP, maybe 10%.

MP is not spewy but easy to play against: he gives off tells when he's given up on a pot, he checked back winning hands a couple times, and in general he's somewhat passive. calls pf with about 20% of hands here.

I've played with CO a few times before; he doesn't 3bet almost at all (I'd guess JJ+, AK; maybe tighter). He's a late middle-aged man good at value owning himself. He bets most of his draws as well.

My guesses as to hero's image is loose and somewhat stationy to CO, unremarkable to UTG+1, and laggy/bluffy to MP; MP has been visibly annoyed at not having hands to call flops with in hands against hero.

stack sizes are 3k for everyone.

UTG+1 opens to 30, MP calls, CO raises to 180, folds to hero in SB with KK.

click it back and he should call with QQ and JJ, hopefully allowing you to get it in on most flops.

flatting could accomplish the same thing but you run the risk of UTG+1 and MP coming along for the ride.

don't hate the CIB but I make the decision if I'm 4bet/folding or 4bet/calling before I do it.

i didnt realize stacks were so deep. we should make it more like $450 imo. if he 5bets i'm fine folding if this guy is indeed as tight as OP says he is.

4bet to 450, fold to 5bet. I don't see him 5betting qq or ak, and I think he'll flat a lot with his worse hands.

400/f

400/f seems good but make it a little more

call

Two lines or options. Both point to the rare case of folding KK preflop with deep stacks, playing against TAGs or predictable players.

First, I think flatting is a little worse that raising. If you flat, you disguise your hand strength, and can watch how UTG1 and MP respond. If they both flat, KK can win big if you smash the flop or you can consider donk betting on an uncoordinated flop, which pretty much accomplishes the same thing as a preflop raise. So, why not raise preflop? That's why I think the second option is better.

If you raise, you'll get a lot more information sooner, upon which you can decide next steps. You get to see how two relatively straight forward players respond. That can't be a bad thing. If UTG1 flats and CO 5 bets, you can fold. If UTG1 5 bets and CO flats you can fold or call (but probably fold). If UTG1 folds and CO 5 bets you can fold.

I hate folding KK preflop, but with these stacks and the player descriptions, I hate it worse playing a big pot that has a lot of gamble, when better spots are going to come up against these players.

This

Against 2p2's advice Hero flats.

Reasons for 4betting:
*If anyone 5-bets, we have a pretty easy fold and only lose the ~420 against AA. I'm actually guessing that CO would flat with AA here sometimes, but it's not a huge problem since I can probably bet/fold most flops and I don't think he'll turn JJ-QQ into a bluff on any street.
*Value out of CO's QQ, half of his JJ's, half of his AK's, possibly other stuff if he's 3betting lighter than I think and he decides to set-mine.
*Rarely have to play multiway pot

Reasons for flatting:
*Keeping MP is probably slightly profitable, even though it makes the hand multiway
*CO may think my range is way wider here than it is, because of my frequent 3betting. A pretty standard perceived flatting range would be TT-QQ, AK, AQs here. He will as a result barrel off JJ-AA and we'll make some money on the whole.

I mostly agree in hindsight that flatting slightly worse than 4betting.

Anyway, on to the flop.

----

UTG+1 opens to 30, MP calls, CO raises to 180, folds to hero in SB with KhKx. Hero flats. UTG+1 calls, MP calls.

Flop (730): 6h4s2h. Hero? (2.8k eff stacks)

4-way action to the flop w KK. Could you get a better flop without a King? Hardly. Nobody mentioned being OOP, but there you have it. Can you lead out on the flop? I don't think so. You flatted preflop, somewhat disguising your hand and could certainly be calling wide, so I would check and watch and learn from the potential fireworks to follow. With three to act there are a lot of things that can happen.

4bet small.

As played, ofc lead. Rep the mid pair everyone thought you had pre, get called down by 2 outs.

People lead 99 in 4way 3bet pots because they know it's good and want to protect. Yea, right.

You think people only lead when they know they are good? Have you ever played live poker before?

The problem with calling PF is that you're getting it 4way to the flop every single time here. Not the most appealing situation but playable anyway.

As played :
I'm in the c/r camp, allows you to get away the rare times the field callers play their set ridiculously strong & eff. stacks are really good for a c/r + ship turn, allowing you to represent AK/AQhh pretty well (aka JJ and QQ never fold)

Pretty easy bets on any runout if it gets checked through

Bet/3bet ship isn't as appealing as you mostly get it in vs AA/NFD, and lead/calling isn't an option to me (lead/folding vs field callers unless they're ******ed or lead/shipping vs CO basically)
Also, because of eff. stacks, the triple barrel runs the risk of facing a really tough river situation (risk of slightly overplaying or c/folding wrong rivers depending on runout)