A hand to get the new forum started.

How much should I raise on the river?

Full Tilt Poker $5/$10 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Nicolak (MP1): $1030.00
crapface82 (MP2): $2913.30
Hero (CO): $1017.00
darkchek_ (BTN): $1000.00
digitalbj (SB): $416.75
Eye_0fTh3_Storm (BB): $1000.00
bestcell (UTG): $545.00
cardtrap (UTG+1): $352.00

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with 7 7
3 folds, crapface82 raises to $35, Hero calls $35, 1 fold, digitalbj calls $30, 1 fold

Flop: ($115.00) 3 3 4 (3 players)
digitalbj checks, crapface82 checks, Hero bets $70, digitalbj folds, crapface82 calls $70

Turn: ($255.00) 2 (2 players)
crapface82 checks, Hero checks

River: ($255.00) 2 (2 players)
crapface82 bets $180, Hero ...

Looks like a pretty bad spot to bluff. I'd fold myself.

id be sooooo tempted to raise river but crapface has improved a ton imo and would probably own me with TT or something

We rep so little by raising here imo.

If we had a boat we probably would have bet the turn. If we had an overpair we'd probably just call. If we had a flush we might have double-barreled turn, or we wouldn't raise the river unless it was the nut flush.

If he's competent he's definitely calling TT imo.

Yea, I think this is a value-bet by him with 88-1010 more than likely...

No doubt -- any chance he'll fold to a raise, though? My hand is obviously no good, but the flush draw just got there and a flush would be a pretty easy value-raise for me given it's impossible to put him on a 2/3 or flush (since no CB on the flop).

Imo, it looks a lot more like he has 56 than 88, no? Why would he bet so much with 88 on the river? What is he hoping to get value from? It's not like he's repping air.

The thing is I can't imagine him check/calling the flop with any draw, especially with 65.

Re: being a tagfish. I folded to his river bet, but feel like a raise might have been better.

Ahh, ok I thought you were thinking you were good for some reason.

I doubt he folds to a raise unless you basically push, I just fold here.

I thought he was killing 25/50 up until UIGEA was passed?

Unless you guys have some bizarre history I can't really imagine not folding here; I mean htf can he check-call oop, with the initiative, without a hand, in order to bluff the river?

Raising is pretty much a disaster here because you are representing absolutely nothing in the world.

Maybe I'm bad, but I'm absolutely raising a flush here.

And I don't think he's bluffing the river here -- I think he's value betting an overpair and I want him to fold .

Your raising on the river? I'd just call. Raising seems insane.

I took a guess at what your range might be on the river and only 15% of it beats JJ.

I don't count it as "representing" something if you were never given an opportunity to fold postflop and your preflop range is somewhat huge and the stuff you're "representing" only constitutes 15% of it.

im sure if crapface came here and posted the hand the other way around with JJ asking if he could call proofrocks shove we'd all be telling him to instafold

minraise.

and it's also sort of a defensive bet on his part as well...

might be a marginal enough situation to just spend the dough to look at his hand.

minraise isn't bad, I prefer a fold, repping too narrow

u ruin another of of my posts that most everyone thinks is a level but my real opinion. GG=p. I like a fold the best fwiw, but if we are gonna bluff i min raise.

if we have QQ here, do you guys like a raise?

if we can raise AA KK QQ JJ TT here for value (okay TT is really thin), i think raising >> folding >>calling with 77.

i sure as hell wouldnt, I dont like the turn check either if you dont know what to do here.

When he check/calls the flop as the preflop raiser I think that drastically narrows his range to mostly hands that beat 77 (primarily higher PPs).

That turn is a pretty terrible card to second barrel vs. that range, IMO.

If he checks the river I just check behind expecting to lose to the pot because I won't be able to move him off his hand.

When he bets the river, though, I think it gives me an opening to move him off his hand with a raise, because I can credibly represent a flush and I don't think I have the image of a player gutsy enough to bluff-raise the river (effectively eliminating a lot of my preflop range that doesn't beat jacks on the river, notwithstanding soah's observation).

Yea, if you're going to raise I vote for a push, but I just fold most of the time.

I think it depends on how he views you here. If he doesn't think you're the type of player capable of turning a made hand into a bluff, a raise here will look very scary regardless of the fact that you're repping a fairly narrow range. On the other hand, if he knows you're a good aggro player I think he's pretty likely to look you up. So, I'd say raise if he doesn't know you very well or has seen you play like a donkey, fold otherwise.