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5/10, AK 3bet spot, weird stacks

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01-13-2013 , 03:31 PM

cushlash

King of the Nits

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,365

5/10, 1K effective stacks

Villain is a bad, overplays marginal made hands making bets with one pair hands where nothing worse is calling. His standard open has been 60-70 at a table where everyone else is opening to 30-50.

Villain opens to 60 from UTG+1, HJ calls, Hero makes it 250 with AKo from the CO.

Villain calls, HJ folds

Flop (575) 533r

villain checks, hero? 750 behind.

Any reasonable bet commits us, but checking back doesn't seem good either because if villain bets the turn I feel like he might spazz with unpaired cards but I won't feel comfortable calling.

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01-13-2013 , 05:32 PM

jrr63

The Situation

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,465

Quote:

Originally Posted by cushlash

This is actually a tough spot - guy probably has something like 99-JJ but IME he'll probably call if you bet the flop if he can beat the perceived AK (and in this case he's right). Can you barrel him off of one pair if you don't hit?

Last edited by jrr63; 01-13-2013 at 05:34 PM. Reason: typo

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01-14-2013 , 03:25 AM

mysterious

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 76

What do you think villain's 3-bet calling range is in this situation?

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01-14-2013 , 04:26 PM

cushlash

King of the Nits

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,365

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrr63

Can you barrel him off of one pair if you don't hit?

doubtful, SPR is 1.3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysterious

What do you think villain's 3-bet calling range is in this situation?

My estimation would be med-big pairs and some big unpaired cards, and because of how bad he was, I would include a few combos of other random stuff.

So something like [99-QQ, AK, AQ, 2 or 3 combos of random crap]

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01-14-2013 , 04:45 PM

verite

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 346

what's your image?

if you're not getting 66-88 to fold with a flop shove, it's time to give up.

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01-15-2013 , 02:41 AM

itisnice

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 353

You gotta think about this before you make it 250 pre and leave a spr of like 1.5.

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01-16-2013 , 03:33 PM

mixgameADDict

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,886

Only read that matters for this spot are villain's 3bet calling freq/range.

Assuming villain has standard 3bet calling range of medium to big PPs or AK (good assumption unless you haven't seen villain fold to 3bet or have other evidence that he's very loose pre), I'm checking back the flop since I don't see villain folding any hand that's beating us.

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01-16-2013 , 04:35 PM

TheQuietAnarchist

Formerly xorbie

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,826

let's make some pessimistic assumptions...

if you shove, he folds all A high / air and calls all pairs. this comes out to about 60% fold and 40% call.

if you check and miss, he always bets turn.

EV of a check is about $70 (chances of spiking an A or K). plus i guess you get paid on an A vs AQ.

EV of a shove is about $140. plus any times he calls with AQ, minus any times he calls with AK.

if you think you have more FE with a different bet sizing, then that just makes it even jollier.

e.g. bet $100 on the flop then shove turn.

but yeah i'd shove usually.

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01-16-2013 , 04:51 PM

TheQuietAnarchist

Formerly xorbie

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,826

alternatively, if he does always bet turn, theres 16 combos of AQ, a few random airs, 16 of AK and only 24 pairs, so just checking and calling a bet is groovey also.

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01-16-2013 , 05:25 PM

#10

ticketmaster

The Situation

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,200

3b smaller pre. I don't think you have much FE post.

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01-16-2013 , 11:41 PM

#11

ebet33

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,994

U don't have to 3b

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01-16-2013 , 11:43 PM

#12

ebet33

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,994

As played I prob would be

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01-17-2013 , 10:11 AM

#13

dmkai3

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,619

3bet a little smaller and as played check back the flop.

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01-17-2013 , 11:24 AM

#14

IronedSheik

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,041

Your image and especially your image for auto-c-betting is key. I think against non-scared-money villains, check it back. This is JJ a ton. Last time I had this I jammed because the guy was playing over his head and he folded JJ, but in retrospect I think that is the wrong play against a lot of villains and I got lucky.

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01-17-2013 , 04:50 PM

#15

ATsai

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 2,409

Bad PF 3-bet sizing. You should size your PF 3-bet bigger to $300, so you have have a pot-sized shove c-bet for the flop. If you had done that, this would be an easy flop c-bet shove.

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01-17-2013 , 04:55 PM

#16

ATsai

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 2,409

If you are scared that this Villain will fold dominated hands to a bigger 3-bet, then I guess 250 was fine. I was basing my suggestion of 3-betting to 300 off the fact that OP stated that Villain was bad. Assuming bad = fish, I assume that 3-betting bigger for value would be better for achieving value and setting up a pot-sized flop shove.

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01-17-2013 , 05:02 PM

#17

ebet33

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronedSheik

betting the flop is mandatory imo

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01-20-2013 , 08:51 PM

#18

bucky104

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 183

Given your description, and the size of the pot and stacks this guy is never ever folding a pair on this board. I don't like shoving the flop at all. Seems close between betting insanely small and checking behind. I think I like betting 150ish, give him a chance to jam it on you with all his trash, and possibly call a bet with some worse ace highs. I think checking behind and not folding the turn is fine too, possible you get him to put in money bad more often that way.

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01-21-2013 , 01:32 PM

#19

OSUTexan

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,210

I don't like the sizing on the 3 bet preflop...u have position so think a raise to $180 is more in-line. Don't like committing 25% of your stack preflop if you don't have the intention of shoving in position preflop.

As played, small bet into a bad hyper-lag player is just asking to be check raised and put to a tough decision and his range OOP here wreaks of 77-QQ, AK, AQ (maybe). Either need to back off and check or shove all in...think you're getting called here though...

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01-21-2013 , 02:18 PM

#20

OSUTexan

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,210

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUTexan

meant shoving in position post-flop

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01-26-2013 , 02:57 AM

#21

Nitty by Nature

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 347

I think you should 3B bigger pre to give you less than a PSB shove on the flop in the event of one caller.

Flatting is fine too IMO.

As played, it's a tough spot. I've found myself in very similar spots many times before with AK in a 3b pot, and usually went with the easiest choice of shoving. Gotta say though, V is very unlikely to fold his overpair. Perhaps a funky line to take would be to make a tiny cbet as a pot control measure? like, bet $200, and if called, V will likely check back most turns and you'd check back almost all hands as well....

Last edited by Nitty by Nature; 01-26-2013 at 03:03 AM. Reason: forgot post flop

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01-26-2013 , 01:11 PM

#22

Oddhalo

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,004

Against a v who is never laying down even marginal "made hand" a flat call leaves you more room play post with your stack... and your not shackled into a 3 bet / cbet scenario on all flops with very little fe and a low spr ( i know this is not standard play).... Seems to me this v will call your flop shove with 55+ here

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01-26-2013 , 01:14 PM

#23

SNGplayer24

banned

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,582

I dont really get the argument for 3b bigger to set up a PSB jam - of course if he calls the 300 with the same freq as 240 or whatever OP made it then we should always make it 300(screw balance against this guy!), but I don't think we should size pre based on having a pot stack left OTF....

as played I'd just check here unless a small bet makes him spazz out with unpaired hands.....if we check I think he might even check the turn with medium/smallish pairs a good % of the time and we allow him to bet the turn with his bluffs

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01-26-2013 , 03:31 PM

#24

Renton555

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5,905

The reraise is too large with the effective stacks. 190 is sufficient. I'd check the flop and evaluate whether you should call the turn unimproved. It greatly will depend on what the turn card is and his sizing. Fortunately bad live players have a tendency to tell a lot with their bet sizes. If he bets huge on the turn your hand is not gonna be good. If he bets a timid amount you can probably peel a river.