2k effective stacks

I don't know much about villian he is a youngish dude wearing a hat and I seen him limp reraise QQ he made a weird size tho, The guy raise 70 he made it $500 other than that I have no reads but he is sitting with something like 6k

MP makes it $40 Hero call in MP with KT Villian calls in CO and BTN calls. and a UTG limper, SO flop is 5ways.

Flop ($200) Q97

MP checks, Hero (usually bets but I decided I want to c/r and get it in) Villian bets $150 BTN calls $150 other peeps fold, Hero makes it $500, Villian snap calls.

Turn ($1350) K Hero ????

well when you say you want to c/r and get it in on the flop, i don't know that you are actually getting it in very often given there is 2k stacks and not 1k stacks. if you are hoping to get it on the flop with your combo draw it seems like just betting and then jamming over a raise is the way to go - and if you don't get raised you can barrel turns/rivers and get them off 1pair hands even if you don't bink.

Also any comments on flop sizing is welcome

Also what do you guys think of the flop c/r?

jesus, you posted a difficult hand.

I typed up many responses trying to figure out just wtf to do here, but there is no simple answer.

I really like if you are 200bb deep then your play is fine, but then what do we do on turn? Its not like we can jam turn because that line is so LOL and full of it and he bets so big it makes it awkward to jam for 500$~ more.

Personally, I feel like if you raise to 500$ on the flop, making the pot 1,150+200= ~1,350 with 1500 effective, I would bet/call 500$ on the turn. If he calls turn, I would jam any river. (for reasons Ben said up there ^^)

just shove the turn

I usually bet flop. If I were to c/r here, I would make it 600 and jam 1250 into 1550 on the turn.

ya I realized I messed up my flop sizing afterwards, Ya my default is to bet flop.

bet min. to induce :P

Could even bet slightly more than $600-650 on flop with the c/r, allowing for an easier jam on turn if we miss or do a bet/call type of follow through on the turn, just as muffin man indicated.

i wonder why u guys like playing this hand so aggresively. In live when villains are likely bad, we have much reduced fold equity... not like a c/r only gets called by sets and combo draws. If someone has KK/AA or maybe AQ some of them, they arent folding, so given the choice wether to go broke on flop (which i think is correct if we semibluff with fold equity and they have a hand, we're obv stacking with the money already in the pot) with 12 outs, like a flip ~48% equity vs AA for example, or play the hand passively and pursue our draws for 150$, why don't we save our money and go AI versus bad players when we know we have more than 50% equity? if its a flip, whats our skill edge? I mean with FE i like the c/r, but when nobody is folding like 97 , JT, AQ, KK+, i think in live i would rather call 150 on flop and hope to hit

size flop so you can jam turn if you're going to x/r

not sure about live tells

I think leading is way better than x/r because if you hit Jx, it's pretty disguised. It's also a cheaper semi-bluff, gives you initiative and option of barreling, lots of good stuff can happen, ect.

bet/3b is much better with stack sizes. Kind of feels like hes waiting for a safe turn with whatever he has and is therefore playing perfectly against your range. I'd just b/c turn myself tbh.

Ya i agree my flop size sux, fwiw guys I shove MOST turns but felt like this turn gave me SD value and I can induce/ potcontrol with a check.

well if your trying to induce them it seems like time to get it arr in, amirite?

also for the flop i like a B/3b and if just flatted on flop, keep on donkin on.

as played, shovel

This. Even the donkiest of villain's may fold a one pair hand on that board and if they call, then you have a ton of outs versus all but sets.

as played I'm pretty happy with jamming turn. Only KQ beats us

ez hand

as played shove anyways

oh read the spoiler... call and c/c i guess? i hate checking here. his betsizing probably means nothing because its live and he probably has no clue how much money you have. or what betsizing is.

agree, a little more on the flop to set up turn jamaments

ya same with jimmy and muffin but they didnt explain why so ill take a stab at it,check raise/call off with a combo draw is bad imo. If you could check raise jam the flop it would be good but sizing doesn't work for how deep you are so your much better betting flop, getting raised and jamming over then check raising to 500 getting called and then jamming any turn (which I think once you check raise flop you def need to jam any non Q turn).

The concept is when you have a draw even with a ton of equity you want to always be the one making the final raise that puts the villain with either calling a shove or fold and no other option that way you end up with actual fold equity and not raising to a point where you know your never folding but its not an allin and villain jams overs (which raising to 500 on the flop is exactly what you did). Also especially live i think your check raise gets smooth called a lot (by lesser draws nd 1 pair hands in particular) and never gets jammed on without villain having a big hand.

Where as if you bet flop you get called a lot lighter and can barrel any turn for sure and some brick rivers or if you get raised you can easily jam over the raise which accomplishes what you want also

as played i think check turn is really bad (shove there for sure imo) but since thats what you did get it in, too much equity to fold imo

Your hand improved and now you are scared? Flop bet should be 575-650. Honestly the way hand played out I wouldn't be surprised if villian also had a flush draw, so half potting the turn and pretty much not folding river is fine, or just open stuffing turn is almost as good.

Those that say shove turn are you VB or bluffing? My reasoning for checking turn is maybe I can induce, and if it checks through i can always VB the river

I realize that I butchered the hand when i checked the flop.

fwiw this turn made it complicated I prolly shove MOST turns.

i prefer a b/3b flop over a c/r since you have better FE this deep by b/3bing but with a c/r villain will rarely jam over the top and you will be left in a weird spot on the turn if you miss (like here).

Good hand... The problem with leading flop is that in 2011 you aren't getting raised by hands that will fold/hands that aren't doing fine against you (except for the occasional smaller combo). When you get flatted, the turn action will almost always be awkward as you will most likely be oop. Sometimes you will tid on the flop which is fine, but you miss out on value those times when you turn a cooler or when someone takes a stab behind you on the flop or in front of you on the turn and you raise and tid...

So, I like c/r to a size that will set up a jam as many have pointed out.

On the turn, I like the check as you now have SD value (as you pointed out), and then I like a fold because villain is repping JT or KQ way too hard and he's essentially putting you all in and giving you less than 2 to 1.

Note: his lrr to 500 with QQ earlier tells me he is not good enough to be turning something weird into a bluff here almost ever.

CR turn bigger to $600-$625 and jam most turns if called. Your flop CR sizing to $500 was way too small.

DGAF is correct that a lot of players nowadays will not raise/fold often if they raise our lead on this flop. That's why the bet/3bet line is not as useful as it once was.

well i see why you wanted to check turn, but i probably just bet/call it.

as played don't fold.