5-10-20 live, AQs facing preflop 3bet and large flop lead - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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5-10-20 live, AQs facing preflop 3bet and large flop lead

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08-06-2011 , 04:20 AM

BoredAtheist

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 406

Nine handed at the Lucky Chances in San Francisco.

Effective stack size: $1800

$20 live straddle. The lolojack limps.

I have A

in the cutoff and I raise to $80.

Folded to the lolojack who raises to $220. I call.

FLOP ($475, 2 players): Q

The lolojack very quickly bets $400.

I had been sitting at the table for about three hours, but I can't really remember anything about lolojack. He was about 30, white, fat, seemed smart, soft-spoken and effeminate. This is the first time anyone besides me has limp-3bet.

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08-06-2011 , 05:50 AM

Zobags

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 305

I would fold. Your A outs suffer from reverse implied odds, and you don't have enough implied odds to draw to a Q or runnners.

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08-06-2011 , 06:50 AM

PerDoom

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,294

fold pre without history

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08-07-2011 , 02:05 PM

mg0698

banned

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 9,432

You been there for 3 hours and don't know anything about villian? Probably a fold pre, But as played I prob call flop and go broke but I'm not happy about it

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08-07-2011 , 06:51 PM

crsseyed

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,024

What's a 'lolojack'? (seriously)

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08-07-2011 , 06:59 PM

aggo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 10,422

well i'm just gonna say it.

call once

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08-08-2011 , 03:23 AM

DGAF

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,114

V nice BA...

As played, call/evaluate.

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08-08-2011 , 04:36 PM

IronedSheik

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,041

Prolly fold pre without read that he could be making a third-level play. And if you're gonna play AQ, you gotta call flop and see.

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12-04-2011 , 03:18 PM

LOLlivepoker

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 527

Fold pre! And I guess now try and gin the turn with the 4/5 of clubs

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12-04-2011 , 03:49 PM

#10

mark82880

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 427

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zobags

I would fold. Your A outs suffer from reverse implied odds, and you don't have enough implied odds to draw to a Q or runnners.

So... we're calling the limp/3bet pre with AQs to fold this flop? For serious?

Flop is a trivial call/eval, unless pre should be a trivial fold (which is certainly possible but hard to say given that you have no read on Villain).

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12-05-2011 , 01:09 AM

#11

franklin58

grinder

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 440

Maybe the lolojack definition would help the decision but as played I agree with the call flop, eval turn.

12 combos of AK, 3 AA, 6 KK, 3 QQ, 6 JJ, 6 TT, a few air. Assuming he'd continue on with all of these on the flop and limp reraise with all of these (which is generous) you're way ahead of 24 combos and crushed by 12. In the games I play in usually this is QQ+. I'd say a good motto is "If you don't know what you want to see on the flop, fold pre". Most people who limp reraise are going to fire a cbet on the flop so you just need to pay attention to the guy and see if you can get any reads.

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12-05-2011 , 01:11 AM

#12

franklin58

grinder

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 440

one other factor is if the table has been playing aggressively or not. If it's a passive table the limp reraise is less likely to be strong but if the button/cutoff are raising a high frequency then that logic is flipped.

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12-05-2011 , 08:18 PM

#13

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by franklin58

Wat?

I'm not saying this isn't true, but what's the damn logic here?!

I guess people just like to limp in passive tables and then make re-raise decisions on the fly when it comes obvious that they can't get a cheap flop. In aggro table, they realize that they can't limp in the first place so they limp less so the ratio of trapping increases compared to limps. Range-wise this is ***** horrible though.

Last edited by Imaginary F(r)iend; 12-05-2011 at 08:24 PM.

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12-05-2011 , 10:12 PM

#14

zachvac

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 13,775

Yeah never heard the term lolojack in my life. Thought you were saying it was the highjack but he was bad or lol but then you kept repeating the term...

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12-05-2011 , 10:28 PM

#15

The Muffin Man

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,023

The lojack is highjack-1 so the lolojack must be hijack-2.

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12-06-2011 , 01:03 AM

#16

franklin58

grinder

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 440

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginary F(r)iend

Slow down there tiger. I don't really understand your rant. Especially the part that says you're not saying this isn't true but what's the logic. All I'm saying is people are more likely to limp big hands if they know they're going to get raised (i.e. aggro game) vs a passive game where there's a decent chance it'll get limped around. I'm sure passive limping tables are a rare site in Helsinki but here in America it's pretty common.

Not the deciding factor, obviously, but something to think about.

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12-06-2011 , 01:08 AM

#17

AAismyfriend

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,841

If you're calling pre and folding this flop you're doing something wrong.

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12-06-2011 , 09:51 AM

#18

canoodles

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 7,017

I feel like we're going to lose a lot of money in this hand no matter how we play it... If we call once, he either has it when he bets the turn, or he's going to have a good read on our/his perceived ranges and bet us off of it anyways.

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12-06-2011 , 06:34 PM

#19

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by franklin58

Yeah, I just figured out how ******ed that is. I'm not ranting at you, just ranting in general. I'm even happy that people use this kind of thinking. I just felt like ranting and kinda to point out to everyone how bad this is. Sorry if I came across as abusive especially since your post is a valuable contribution.

Last edited by Imaginary F(r)iend; 12-06-2011 at 07:00 PM.

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12-06-2011 , 10:45 PM

#20

franklin58

grinder

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 440

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginary F(r)iend

Passive aggressive apologies are cute. No worries.

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12-08-2011 , 05:37 PM

#21

dmkai3

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,619

Pre is debatable but obv can't fold this flop. Turn?

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12-08-2011 , 05:42 PM

#22

miamicheats

i finance dead fish

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 17,146

Grunch

Folding pre but calling isn't terrible, but once you call pre you cane fold this flop. See turn hope we hit a q or a club, if not I'm likely folding with zero reads...

Edit
Also I don't think you mentioned anything about how your image is. How would villain perceive your opening range? Is every hand straddled? Have you been attacking it?

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12-09-2011 , 07:51 PM

#23

mark82880

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 427

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAismyfriend

If you're calling pre and folding this flop you're doing something wrong.

I mean... This.

It is not possible that calling pre and folding this flop can both be good decisions without Villain flipping over his cards accidentally or something equally preposterous. Either Hero should fold pre or he should call flop. Anything that suggests otherwise is just silly.

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