Why does it matter how much money we've put into the pot? What matters is pot size and stack size.

i dont see how any of this is right

How? The point is that if you play with the fear of getting coolered, you're constantly gonna lose out on +EV situations. If, in this situation, he has you beat to a flush, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, because his range is wide enough that calling will always be +EV in this spot.

As I said before, the implied odds more than justify a call here, especially since if you call, the other villain is likely to do so as well. The fact that you're in position makes it even more attractive since. If the flush draw misses the turn and he checks, you can narrow down his range to a flush draw, and bet with massive fold equity.

Like I said, if you're afraid of getting coolered, you're gonna miss all kinds of +EV situations. It's not as if the only hands in his range are flush draws that beat you. What about flush draws that you beat? What about 2-pair, sets etc. If you hit the turn, and he has one of those, you're pretty much guaranteed to double through.

you're significantly behind, when you make your hand hes not stacking off, he prob won't play non nut fd's this way, most of the time you're only seeing a turn card....if we had a more concealed hand or a draw that can't be dominated then im not folding, but I don't see how we make money here.

I think there is definite fold equity (prob around 25-30%) against villain 1. He could be isolating the shortstack with hands like K5 or 34 that he did not want to play multi-way, which are not gonna stand up to your pressure. Raise>fold>call. Fold and call are not even close. Raise and fold unfortunately are (making this a quite marginal situation overall).

+1

This was my thinking in this spot. None of our outs are disguised, villain's line looks strong (despite lollive players), we miss turn a lot, and villain probably barrels all blank turns. Personally I favor folding in this spot.

Now, if we want to take a laggier line and are ok with most likely flipping for stacks here, then I'm ok with reraising or calling on the flop (reraising with the intention of getting it in seems slightly better).

We'd love to see K5 or 34, but if villain is AT ALL competent (reads suggest he's on the tighter side), then he's got a more nutted range in this spot. There's just not a lot of upside if that's the case - a majority of the time we're flipping vs sets, we're a lil under 40% vs made straights, and we occasionally run into a monster like A3.

So it really just depends on how you want to play it.

You would have flopped the world if it were a 3bet hu pot against a nit or something. This is just a really easy fold and smile though. C/r guy is set + (prob just straights though in reality given action and description) and God knows what everyone behind you has...

Take your chip off your cards and slide them towards the dealer.

Edit: raising pre would just be silly.

easy fold, i'd prolly lead out though since u look super strong by doing so.

fold. you have non nut flush draw and are prolly vs. sets/straights or nut flush draws in this limped pot scenario.

I cant see how raise/getting it in vs. a super strong range can be good here long term. His getting in range on the flop is flopped straights, 2pr+ and NFD's. Thats if the description of the player is accurate. How much fold equity do we really have? Especially with our given image being aggro/spewy? Probably not much I'd say unless villain is a super nit he will call you with the strongest hands in his range and fold his bluffs like 78ss that you are crushing...

You are never getting it in with more than ~40% equity vs a this tight villain. And thats being generous!! Spew IMO... Surely there are better spots than this...?

You don't know what coolered means and you are the only one in this forum that says calling is even remotely a good play.

This is a fold every time. No doubt. BUT if Villains were different for example like very loose fish that would do this with rag flush cards or a straight draw, I would call.

I've re-evaluated my position on this hand from "easy call" to "close but a call."

I changed my mind a little because i realized we aren't putting in only 350 and closing the action but potentially 480 if the shorty likes his hand. That said its still 480 to play for 1500 on the turn and I think the implied odds more than compensate us for the rest. We have position on the guy and there will only be 1250 left so he's just not getting away from the hands we improve vs very often.

So while in the hand I thought it was a decision being between call and raise. Now I think that raise = fold >>>>>call. I think Call is the worst of the 3 for a lot of the reasons stated, mainly being that we don't get paid off all the time we hit as everyone of our outs is a scare card on the turn.

I'm having a tough time figuring out if this is just a dump and move on to the next hand or if we have enough fold equity + actual equity in the hand to just go with it. Also, stack sizes are a little awkward to raise, so any raise is committing me/villain, so a shove for over pot might be warranted. Again, this might make me sway this decision towards a fold, whereas if we had 1200 or 3000 it might be a shove/raise respectively.

So it's been a few days since the last post, so I think it's ok to post results at this time.

I shoved, villain 2 insta mucked, villain 1 tanked for a couple minutes, flipped over A3 and mucked. Knowing he was capable of folding that hand makes me pretty happy with my play, even though I see everyone's point how this could very well be a fold. Thanks for the replies.

Lol, that fold is soooo bad for less than 100bb effective. Wow. I think I'd lead flop if I were you. Fold as played. Unreal you got those folds.

I think the results bring up an interesting point that I've been thinking about but haven't mentioned.

Basically this is a fold in a tough game, I think we can all agree with that. But the worse a player V1 is, the more this becomes not a fold. If V1 is a good player, then we're gonna have no fold equity pushing here, and no implied odds when we call. If he's a mediocre to bad player, he's gonna make ****** folds like he did, or he's gonna pay us off when we hit if we call, or he'll even give us free rivers to improve.

I'm switching to full time live poker!!

After the hand the table wanted me to "show the bluff," which I didn't do. Half the table was 100% sure I had a flush draw, the other half was 100% sure I had 63 and that it was the correct fold. No other hands were possible according to the table. I said nothing.

You should show the 6 of spade to leave them wonder even more ) What a bad fold by V btw. You got really lucky. Most player won't fold there bc they can beat more way combinations than they loose to.